All-Star 3 Major Changes To Address 3 Major Problems

kingston said:

I still think high school numbers dwarf anything in allstar. Those rules need to be made to be a level 3/4 hybrid. Why? Make high school safer (where a large part of the athletes are) and if they want to truly do the amazing stuff go to allstar. BAM just made allstar better and most cheerleaders safer.

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100% agree!
You just fixed it!

mia4life06 said:

one reason cheerleading has decreased from last years is gym closing. . . one an two some people can afford all star cheerleading anymore compared to high school cheerleading

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Honestly cheerleading is not that expensive compared to other allstar spots. And lots of people opened gyms who shouldnt have and failed when the economy got tough. While Rays has gotten bigger last year I can say most gyms did not.

kingston said:

Honestly cheerleading is not that expensive compared to other allstar spots. And lots of people opened gyms who shouldnt have and failed when the economy got tough. While Rays has gotten bigger last year I can say most gyms did not.

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yes i know these but coming from a state were high school cheerleading more competitive then all star this is a problem once they learn there full and altn. passes there gone because its cheaper

kingston said:

Honestly cheerleading is not that expensive compared to other allstar spots. And lots of people opened gyms who shouldnt have and failed when the economy got tough. While Rays has gotten bigger last year I can say most gyms did not.

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But you are comparing it to other allstar sports, which many people cannot afford regardless if it's cheer, soccer, or baseball.

kingston said:

Honestly cheerleading is not that expensive compared to other allstar spots. And lots of people opened gyms who shouldnt have and failed when the economy got tough. While Rays has gotten bigger last year I can say most gyms did not.

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Which all star sports do you think are more expensive than cheerleading? Soccer or baseball? Nope. Basketball, could be but not usually. Cheerleading was the most expensive club/allstar sport my family paid for by far. Though, it definitely depends on where you live and which team you're on..

ohkcheery said:

Which all star sports do you think are more expensive than cheerleading? Soccer or baseball? Nope. Basketball, could be but not usually. Cheerleading was the most expensive club/allstar sport my family paid for by far. Though, it definitely depends on where you live and which team you're on..

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Cheerleading can be inexpensive, if you choose to go the recreation route. But basketball, football, ice hockey, etc. can all be expensive. Travel to foreign countries for tournaments? Ice hockey gear? Football gear? Travel within the country, etc.. Depends on the level you choose to pay for.

ohkcheery said:

Which all star sports do you think are more expensive than cheerleading? Soccer or baseball? Nope. Basketball, could be but not usually. Cheerleading was the most expensive club/allstar sport my family paid for by far. Though, it definitely depends on where you live and which team you're on..

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You have to compare apples to apples. When looking at competing in baseball year round NOT just one fall season the price goes drastically up. I know in our area baseball is a couple grand more expensive if you want to do it year round and be competitive.

thecheernerd said:

100% agree!
You just fixed it!

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I have been saying this for months. High school needs stronger restritions. That will help allstar and be safer

Regarding tumbling, if we want to be taken seriously as a sport then we need to let the top level do the really hard, and yes, dangerous skills, but make them do them correctly or take away the credit, maybe even score them lower than if they had not attempted the trick at all. That would make coaches think twice before putting skills on the mat that aren't ready, hence reducing injury. I think right now it is unlike gymnastics in that the only standard for tumbling is not touching down....therefore emphasis is not put on correct form. It does worry me a bit as a parent when I see the high percentage of injuries....but it's not the hardest skills that cause the most....it's the rush we all feel to get the "next" trick (and I'm guilty too) before the kids are ready.
With the new rules, the top athletes will leave when they max out within the rule system to find new challenges....how is that going to help our sport? The incredibly difficult level 5 routines they want to take away are our biggest and best asset to show just how serious and "legit" our sport is and it's what gets us media coverage.
Underweight, overweight, tall, short, gay, straight, boys, girls...we even have special needs....why are they changing the rules to include more types?I agree, the only kids being excluded are the less affluent kids....where's the rule about that?
I must say I don't totally disagree with the image rules....some gyms were taking the skimpy uniforms, makeup, etc. too far. Ice skating and gymnastics must have rules similar to these because they have kept it classy...I think our sport could use some help to get pointed in that direction, but they might be taking those rules too far...a little undecided on that one.

kingston said:

I think insurance is the impetus to start thinking about all these changes. I am not sure we are there yet where insurance will balk, but the fact we only have 2 companies willing to insure is frightening.

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To give you numbers, our liability premium on a standard fitness facility is about 2k a month. Add a diving board to one of the pools, 4k a month. Do a high risk athletic activity, say skate boarding, rock wall climbing or cheer (yeah, they know what it is and the risks, even have definitions about tumbling, building, etc), goes to 6-8k per month. Now, I'm not a big fan of any of what has gone on from either side on this issue, but a bit of dialogue and interaction is needed now, not yelling at eachother and sounds like this is an attempt to move forward.

So the changes made (good or bad) were to address 3 major problems.

1. I think a better 'bandaid' than limiting the skills would have been what Les suggested (and what many of us have been saying all along) on the call last night about increasing deductions for bad tumbling and weighing execution much higher. Even bad coaches can see a deduction and go 'that's not worth it if we want to win'. THEN start implementing the coach credentialing process and make it stricter every year. Also make the reasons to get certified STRONGER (not allowed to compete at Worlds, then USASF-sanctioned comps unless certified, better insurance, etc.). Actually, make it stronger across the board and then maybe those janky BHS, death tucks, full ups that look like they could be blown over with a whisper, and tick tocks that make your heart stop (and not in a good way) will end as well. Penalize the HECK out of an underrotated double and see how many teams throw them.

2. NOTHING, in my opinion, about the tumbling/age grid rules makes cheer more attractive to outsiders. What the USASF SHOULD do is follow a strategy about uniting rec programs (which are generally cheaper) and make THEM safer, as well as have info about starting a successful half-year program, which is a good way to get new athletes and either turn them into full-timers or at least make them want to come back next year.

3. And SOME of those image rules I can get behind, however there are obvious holes in them. I get wanting to be more regulated about skirt sizes (there's that one team I see every video of and I see more of their spankies than I do of their skirts. And they're a high-ranking gym) or short sizes (they are rather figure-hugging, and some are little better than hot pants), which I'm ok with and I'm glad about how they at least put it off for a few years. I like that they're at least trying to put more regulation into the length and cutout-crazy uniform DON'Ts we saw this year. However, that whole image and appearance thing SCREAMS of overreaching and a potential lawsuit should someone choose to do so. You can't enforce a sandbagging rule, but you want the uniform police to come by and tell me how to dress? I wouldn't care if a giant rhinestone eye patch couldn't be used, but I've seen some GORGEOUS smokey eye makeup from teams. And even GYMNASTS use not-natural eye makeup some times! I get wanting to be a bit more appropriate in dance/music and not wanting to have girls slapping their bums or grind in what's supposed to be a 'family friendly' event, but to take away 'theatricality' is like taking away an integral part of cheer.

How should these problems have been addressed? They should have been done by the WHOLE of the coaching body, not just one or two people. Transparent, forewarned, and NOT like some back-alley crack deal.

1. Better education and better coach credentialling. I have see people on the boards say, 'of course the USASF knows that's the solution!' but the credentialling process has remained completely static for at least several years. They could have implemented a change in credentialling policy overnight, with a year's grace, and fewer complaints would have been made (I think).

2. The age grid changes are ridiculous. To achieve the desired safety improvement, bottom ages could be implemented on higher-level teams. I can still register my Mini 3 team as a Youth or Junior... or register my Youth 5 as a Junior. We might not place as well, but these athletes will still be performing the same (or harder!) skill set they were on the younger team.

3. I can appreciate some of the image rules (not the etiquette document), but that too has obvious flaws as have been pointed out. Instead of fixating on a group of 8 year-olds wearing crop tops, the media can turn their attention to a group of 10 -year-olds (wearing crop tops! cheering with 18 year-olds!). A lot of the other image rules are common sense, but I think they would have been taken better if they weren't issued simultaneously with some safety crackdowns.

To echo kristenthegreat:

kristenthegreat said:

How should these problems have been addressed? They should have been done by the WHOLE of the coaching body, not just one or two people. Transparent, forewarned, and NOT like some back-alley crack deal.

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kingston said:

I have been saying this for months. High school needs stronger restritions. That will help allstar and be safer

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Schools also need to put restrictions on their Coaches or require certifications and continuing education. Too many administrators have blinders on...until an injury occurs...they need to be accountable on who they are hiring! As for National Federation...they need to buck up and make some major changes...just sayin'....HS Coaches are always talking about preserving HS Cheer, they need to do it with safer, more restrictive rules. And if a coach isn't qualified....restrict it even further ...reduce injury and protect the sport!
In our state the Coaches association has failed to embrace all star cheer,instead seeing it as an enemy...if the two could work together...we could promote the entire sport to new heights in schools and gyms!

I forgot to mention, I could understand them pushing for the elimination of Mini 3 and fully restricting youth 5 in the interest of 'more competition'. But in the interest of safety, that's just silly, for all the aforementioned reasons..

kingston said:

I think insurance is the impetus to start thinking about all these changes. I am not sure we are there yet where insurance will balk, but the fact we only have 2 companies willing to insure is frightening.

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How do gymnastics facilities get insurance then? How about football? Hockey? Why is cheer the only sport insurance companies aren't wanting to insure?