High School Calling All Cali Coaches...

[AScheer]

This is why I've been telling people for the past decade to be careful what you wish for. Being a sport does nothing but change cheer as we know it. I've never understood the desire to become a sport.

I wonder though if this has anything to do with UCA creating a club division this past season? I originally assumed it was for all the fake rec teams to have a division they actually belonged in, but now I'm wondering if it's a way to get around all of these states declaring cheer a sport.

There has to be work arounds to the whole club thing. Like if everyone is allowed to join a club, it doesn't mean that they make the sideline right? What if everyone participates at club practice, but some sort of process is put in place that only certain kids make the sidelines and comp mat. The rest are alternates in a way, while working at practice to be able to make the sideline or mat one day. Maybe a skill check off sheet? Yes you can be in the club if you wish, but you have to master the chants, have a backhandspring, etc to make the sideline? Take it a step further that you have to have even more on a checklist for comp team. Clubs have officers right? Officers always take special trips and have additional meetings or requirements. What if your comp girls are all officers? Anyone can join the club, but you have to be selected to be an officer. Or maybe like another coach mentioned, put them all in the club. Have your comp team on one side of the floor working skills while the rest of the club works on their game skills. Or my last thought Is that it's some sort of spirit club. Anyone can join. Those selected and that meet certain criteria can cheer games and competitions, while the others make signs, decorate the halls and fields, take on more of a pep/spirit club type roll than an actual cheering roll.

 

[CheerItFullOut]

Try to keep Pinelands, BT and now 3 Time Repeat Champ El Do from going to UCA and you'll see a match lit so fast for reform or amendment on "state limit travel regulations"... I just don't see it. AND... Does Cali and NJ REALLY wanna deal with the whole "gender discrimination issue" since male dominated sports (football) are allowed to travel out of state?!

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

Try to keep Pinelands, BT and now 3 Time Repeat Champ El Do from going to UCA and you'll see a match lit so fast for reform or amendment on "state limit travel regulations"... I just don't see it. AND... Does Cali and NJ REALLY wanna deal with the whole "gender discrimination issue" since male dominated sports (football) are allowed to travel out of state?!

Thank you for reiterating everything I've been trying to say about this for the past 36 hours. One good court case and a lot of this goes away.

Also in your previous post, if there's a workaround, I think we can all agree that Varsity will find it.

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

This is why I've been telling people for the past decade to be careful what you wish for. Being a sport does nothing but change cheer as we know it. I've never understood the desire to become a sport.

I wonder though if this has anything to do with UCA creating a club division this past season? I originally assumed it was for all the fake rec teams to have a division they actually belonged in, but now I'm wondering if it's a way to get around all of these states declaring cheer a sport.

There has to be work arounds to the whole club thing. Like if everyone is allowed to join a club, it doesn't mean that they make the sideline right? What if everyone participates at club practice, but some sort of process is put in place that only certain kids make the sidelines and comp mat. The rest are alternates in a way, while working at practice to be able to make the sideline or mat one day. Maybe a skill check off sheet? Yes you can be in the club if you wish, but you have to master the chants, have a backhandspring, etc to make the sideline? Take it a step further that you have to have even more on a checklist for comp team. Clubs have officers right? Officers always take special trips and have additional meetings or requirements. What if your comp girls are all officers? Anyone can join the club, but you have to be selected to be an officer. Or maybe like another coach mentioned, put them all in the club. Have your comp team on one side of the floor working skills while the rest of the club works on their game skills. Or my last thought Is that it's some sort of spirit club. Anyone can join. Those selected and that meet certain criteria can cheer games and competitions, while the others make signs, decorate the halls and fields, take on more of a pep/spirit club type roll than an actual cheering roll.

 

[CoachTamara]

@CheerItFullOut You have no idea how happy I am to read someone else is trying to figure this out THIS season and not next!

We are looking at sideline being the "club" route, but after meeting with the staff that oversees clubs it's going to be a pain. We will have to have officers, regular meetings and minutes turned in, and participation cannot be based on skill. So at best I can say "you need to attend X number of practices before you can be on the sideline" and make sure they know all the material, but that's about it. And clubs allow membership all year, so I can't really do a try-out. I want to do a no-cut try out so they at least understand the material and what cheer involves... I want them to figure out if they want to join before the fall when they suddenly want to quit.

Scary to have a "self governing" sideline team if it's a club. I can't even imagine the officers election and how that would go down. I also told the AD I refuse to stunt and have these crazy awesome routines with a bunch of kids that don't know the basics of cheer... I will allow the comp team to perform at halftime, but the sideline club will stay on the sidelines.

What are you doing about uniforms if the sideline team doesn't have a tryout until the fall? Does the school own them?

A friend already structures her team like this, minus the club part. She had 66 on sideline and they only showed up to games once they knew the cheers, didn't do any stunting or tumbling unless they were on comp. She said it was easier because everyone had their own group of friends to hang with.

 

[CoachTamara]

Also, I haven't heard anything about a ban on out of state travel for us. My school allows it, and if they didn't it wouldn't matter because we have USA Nationals down south. However, if we move to a spring season, this means that competition companies will be forced to move school competitions and Nationals to March-May. It will be really interesting since that interferes with Summit/Worlds season for all star. I thought for sure we would be a winter sport, but what do I know...

 

[CheerItFullOut]

Also, I haven't heard anything about a ban on out of state travel for us. My school allows it, and if they didn't it wouldn't matter because we have USA Nationals down south. However, if we move to a spring season, this means that competition companies will be forced to move school competitions and Nationals to March-May. It will be really interesting since that interferes with Summit/Worlds season for all star. I thought for sure we would be a winter sport, but what do I know...

So 1. Just because you are a club doesn't mean you have to TOTALY treat it like a traditional club. We already are a club and consider our orientation, parent and fund meetings our documented "meetings". Technically you can STILL hold tryouts for the "team" (teams) of your club... And consider them your "elected teams" ... And captains "officers"... Everyone else is part of your open "spirit club" that cheers on the team from either the sideline or crowd"... Helps lead the student section ... Pump up the crowd assists with signage, props and decorations. (Get where I'm going?)
2. Yes USA is a nationals but it's SO west coast based IMO it's sort of a "states" to me. I really don't want them to short change schools the opportunity to attend UCA. For the love... I don't get why "spring" was the pick.
3. Regardless... Just like other sports start their gym time a month before I don't see why comp can't get its start in Sept for an Oct - April get ready.
4. Uniforms... Our school has long done a check out (if you choose option)... Kids would HAVE to do early tryout...by at least a month and a half to have them in time with A uniform "check out option" school would have to allow for kids to opt to either or. (We have this right now) bigger companies would have to pump up turn around time.

 

[jscoach210]

I can't see them not allowing nationals way too many teams go. The season start thing was also an issue in NY as our season "started" on August 17th as it does for football,soccer,etc. That became our tryout date and we were only able to have a few clinics the days before tryouts and if you wanted to workout more our coach had luckily arranged for us to go to an all star gym for tumbling and stunt practice. And with the new rules out middle school team was no longer able to go to Trail's end with us, which is especially necessary since a lot of the girls are brand new and need help in technique and basics, and it also encourages bonding.

We also had the same issue but NY regionals is in December, which since a UCA person helped make the rules for the state, allowed breathing room for tryouts and for teams to "get enough practices in" before the regional. Hopefully they keep allowing nationals teams to go, it would be a huge loss to see Jersey teams not able to go to UCA/NCA.

Agreed... Although most jersey teams go to toms river for regionals.. That was actually a week earlier this year so 2nd weekend in November was regionals! Yikes and toms river regional is absolutely HUGE!


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[jscoach210]

Try to keep Pinelands, BT and now 3 Time Repeat Champ El Do from going to UCA and you'll see a match lit so fast for reform or amendment on "state limit travel regulations"... I just don't see it. AND... Does Cali and NJ REALLY wanna deal with the whole "gender discrimination issue" since male dominated sports (football) are allowed to travel out of state?!

Yes... I agree!
And wrestling does travel out of state too.



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[LittleMissA17]

Agreed... Although most jersey teams go to toms river for regionals.. That was actually a week earlier this year so 2nd weekend in November was regionals! Yikes and toms river regional is absolutely HUGE!


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I remember going to that regional my sophomore year it was a big one. Now we go to pocono and or empire.

 

[ARajamin]

Can we please discuss the implications of becoming a sport next season? Our school is trying to be proactive, but I'm curious how other schools are going to implement these changes.

Will sideline still be considered a sport for your school? Do you compete? If you do STUNT, where will this fall? How do you compete if you have to stay within a set season? We've gotten word it will be a spring sport, so practice cannot begin before February. Do you make your sideline team go to camp if they aren't considered a sport? I have so many questions.

Sideline is not a sport for us. As of now our school district athletic directors have voted to abstain from competing so nothing changes for us (which sucks because I just took over and wanted to compete). This will be the one and only year our school will compete unless they change their minds... total bummer.

 

[ARajamin]

Try to keep Pinelands, BT and now 3 Time Repeat Champ El Do from going to UCA and you'll see a match lit so fast for reform or amendment on "state limit travel regulations"... I just don't see it. AND... Does Cali and NJ REALLY wanna deal with the whole "gender discrimination issue" since male dominated sports (football) are allowed to travel out of state?!

hahaha I have a couple of my former all star girls on ElDo... Coach Katie was totally against the change from the start (Ithink she even did an interview on it). I think they entire cheer program there would FLIP if they couldnt hit nationals... They'd find a way to change that real quick-- smart coaches and parents there. I know the AP at my school wasn't happy when I mentioned no competing for us... She said that is we couldn't compete then basketball couldn't do any tournaments either... Hoping she'll be our advocate.

 

[Elle B]

California mom here, with a daughter who's just getting started in middle school cheer so I really don't know much about how the high school system is officially structured.

I don't understand the whole "club" situation. If I'm I'm reading it right, once Competition Cheer is added as a sport it changes the existing cheer system to one where everybody has to be admitted to any cheering team that is not Competition Cheer?

As of now, cheerleading counts as a club/activity, they have spring tryouts (where girls get cut), they order uniforms, have summer practices and camp and then cheer football/basketball. Why would that change to a situation where the cheerleading club can't have spring tryouts for the following year or has to admit anyone who wants to join? Why would the addition of a Competition Cheer Team as a sport who's season is Spring change the existing cheerleading club who's season is Summer/Fall/Winter? I feel like I'm missing something huge...

(Also, one of our local football teams has traveled out of state to play games many times.)

 

[Elle B]

Well I checked out the CIF rules and I think I have the answer to my own question: The addition of cheer as a sport would change everything...but only for girls who want to do both Cheerleading Club/sideline at games AND be on the Competition Cheer Team. (which I imagine is everyone)

Long story short- any practices that the sideline cheerleading club did would count as illegal out of season practices for anyone who is also on the Competition Cheer Team because sideline practices would count as attempting to "maintain or improve a student-athlete’s skill proficiency in a sport." It also specifically says "Outside organization activity (club, etc.), shall not be used to circumvent these Bylaws." Am I reading that right?

5. General Rulings | CIF Central Section

 

[CheerItFullOut]

Well I checked out the CIF rules and I think I have the answer to my own question: The addition of cheer as a sport would change everything...but only for girls who want to do both Cheerleading Club/sideline at games AND be on the Competition Cheer Team. (which I imagine is everyone)

Long story short- any practices that the sideline cheerleading club did would count as illegal out of season practices for anyone who is also on the Competition Cheer Team because sideline practices would count as attempting to "maintain or improve a student-athlete’s skill proficiency in a sport." It also specifically says "Outside organization activity (club, etc.), shall not be used to circumvent these Bylaws." Am I reading that right?

5. General Rulings | CIF Central Section

that you are! ...