All-Star Competitions Giving Out More Bids Than Advertised

[kristenthegreat]

but if everyone "knows" it was a mistake...why would anyone expect it to happen 2 years in a row?

^What he said. Those teams are ALL likely to place well, if not at the top of their respected divisions. That's a LOT of cred for one event..

 

[BlueCat]

Turns out that ACA had qualified the previous year to offer 3 bids this year if they chose. They had planned on giving just 2. (I don't know the reasoning there, but I assume they felt that the cost wasn't justified.). Monday night, they simply called USASF to confirm that the could still change their mind and give all of 3 of their allotted paid bids. The enrollment numbers from the previous year determine your max numbers of bids, but apparently, you do not have to give out the maximum you are alloted if you choose not to. (I was unaware of this.)

I was skeptical at first of this explanation, but sources in the know assure me that this is true. That was why ACA was so quick to simply say that they would just offer another bid, because they knew they had been qualified from the beginning to go to 3 if they chose. They did not need special permission from USASF to allot their additional bid, because they were eligible to give 3 in the first place.

ACA said that if they had known the correct information from the start, and seen how close bids #2 and #3 were score-wise, they would have announced from the start of awards that they were giving all 3. They also stated that they known the enrollment was as high as it turned out to be is year, they would advertised 3 from the start when sending out information about the event. I have no way to verify this, so I will just have to take Mr. Wagers at his word. (Something I am comfortable doing after knowing him for nearly 20 years.)

I am curious now how many other EPs are choosing not to give out their full compliment of bids.

 

[newcheerdad]

Turns out that ACA had qualified the previous year to offer 3 bids this year if they chose. They had planned on giving just 2. (I don't know the reasoning there, but I assume they felt that the cost wasn't justified.). Monday night, they simply called USASF to confirm that the could still change their mind and give all of 3 of their allotted paid bids. The enrollment numbers from the previous year determine your max numbers of bids, but apparently, you do not have to give out the maximum you are alloted if you choose not to. (I was unaware of this.)

Interesting. I assume that applies to at-large bids as well? I'd always thought that you had to give out three at-large bids for each paid bid.

 

[BlueCat]

Interesting. I assume that applies to at-large bids as well? I'd always thought that you had to give out three at-large bids for each paid bid.

I believe that you can give away up to 3 for every paid bid you give away, but dont have to. Most EPs would understandably give away the max, but a few choose to be more selective I guess.

 

[xo sarah]

I am curious now how many other EPs are choosing not to give out their full compliment of bids.

I believe Jamfest took away one of their paid bids (and thus, 3 at-large bids) when they decided to do The Majors. I could be completely wrong, but I remember people talking about how originally, everything said 4 paid bids, and then it changed to 3.

 

[King]

If this amount of the bids is true that is wonderful because that is about the only way the situation could be resolved correctly while begin fair to everyone.

As for the future, how can this be prevented? It is apparent the list handed out is faulty, so I would never trust it completely again. Maybe for every bid team there should be a Worlds meeting and you have to hand something in about your intentions for a bid?

So just the gym name, team name, and then: I am willing to accept a: Paid Bid Partial Paid At Large Already Have A Bid Will Not Accept Bid. Circle all that apply. All Worlds coaches have to turn this form in to each Worlds comp. If a Worlds comp wants to they can give an extra bid to a team by taking away a bid from the next year. So information should be purer (comes from each gym) and each competition has two motivations to get it right. To not piss off the customer and to not have to fix a mistake by giving up a bid next year (both could have huge potential hits on their business).

 

[BlueCat]

I believe Jamfest took away one of their paid bids (and thus, 3 at-large bids) when they decided to do The Majors. I could be completely wrong, but I remember people talking about how originally, everything said 4 paid bids, and then it changed to 3.

So technically, Jamfest could have given an extra bid to Worlds that day if they chose.

Paid bids are expensive. While I wish there were more of them available in our area, I can understand why some EPs wouldn't give away their full allotment.

The sad thing is that "paid" bids typically don't even cover all of the costs for the athletes. They used to, but now "paid" has kind of morphed into something less - kind of like "national championship".

 

[BlueCat]

If this amount of the bids is true that is wonderful because that is about the only way the situation could be resolved correctly while begin fair to everyone.

As for the future, how can this be prevented? It is apparent the list handed out is faulty, so I would never trust it completely again. Maybe for every bid team there should be a Worlds meeting and you have to hand something in about your intentions for a bid?

So just the gym name, team name, and then: I am willing to accept a: Paid Bid Partial Paid At Large Already Have A Bid Will Not Accept Bid. Circle all that apply. All Worlds coaches have to turn this form in to each Worlds comp. If a Worlds comp wants to they can give an extra bid to a team by taking away a bid from the next year. So information should be purer (comes from each gym) and each competition has two motivations to get it right. To not piss off the customer and to not have to fix a mistake by giving up a bid next year (both could have huge potential hits on their business).

While I agree with you in concept, the bottom line to me is that the USASF should be able to get their list of bids right. I am not joking when I say they should just check it against the FB wiki once a week or so and double check any discrepancies that come up.

They have the Worlds-bid-seeking teams fill out forms as you suggest, but I would go a step further and say that the compiled list of bids and bid-accepting-intentions should be posted somewhere for the coaches to see while they are at the competition.

 

[King]

So technically, Jamfest could have given an extra bid to Worlds that day if they chose.

Paid bids are expensive. While I wish there were more of them available in our area, I can understand why some EPs wouldn't give away their full allotment.

The sad thing is that "paid" bids typically don't even cover all of the costs for the athletes. They used to, but now "paid" has kind of morphed into something less - kind of like "national championship".

The price to compete has gone up in 6 years but the amount given for a bid has not. Should it be increased to $30,000?

 

[King]

While I agree with you in concept, the bottom line to me is that the USASF should be able to get their list of bids right. I am not joking when I say they should just check it against the FB wiki once a week or so and double check any discrepancies that come up.

They have the Worlds-bid-seeking teams fill out forms as you suggest, but I would go a step further and say that the compiled list of bids and bid-accepting-intentions should be posted somewhere for the coaches to see while they are at the competition.

That is originally why the wiki (and originally a post that was hand edited all the time I think by TealFan ) was created. Because there was no up to date reliable list from any other source.

I keep trying to think at what point do we forgive mistakes because people are human or are outraged because you don't make those mistakes.

 

[BlueCat]

The price to compete has gone up in 6 years but the amount given for a bid has not. Should it be increased to $30,000?

No, the price should go back down and the USASF should get the bulk of its funding from mandatory athlete/gym/EP memberships instead. That way, the L5s and L6s aren't paying for regulating the entire industry. It would also allow the Worlds teams to be able to afford another competition or two, helping out the EPs.

 

[King]

No, the price should go back down and the USASF should get the bulk of its funding from mandatory athlete/gym/EP memberships instead. That way, the L5s and L6s aren't paying for regulating the entire industry. It would also allow the Worlds teams to be able to afford another competition or two, helping out the EPs.

Has the price gone up because of the USASF or because of Disney?

 

[BlueCat]

Has the price gone up because of the USASF or because of Disney?

I don't know if the prices INCREASES are due to Disney or not. I do know that essentially, USASF has a massive profit margin built into the event. If it were a "regular" event producer, I would say more power to them. However, as the organization theoretically has control over the industry itself, it's event should not be set up the same way as a for-profit company. Otherwise, they have too much incentive to keep tweaking the rules to benefit the event rather than doing what is best for the industry as a whole.

 

[ACEDAD]

Turns out that ACA had qualified the previous year to offer 3 bids this year if they chose. They had planned on giving just 2. (I don't know the reasoning there, but I assume they felt that the cost wasn't justified.). Monday night, they simply called USASF to confirm that the could still change their mind and give all of 3 of their allotted paid bids. The enrollment numbers from the previous year determine your max numbers of bids, but apparently, you do not have to give out the maximum you are alloted if you choose not to. (I was unaware of this.)

I was skeptical at first of this explanation, but sources in the know assure me that this is true. That was why ACA was so quick to simply say that they would just offer another bid, because they knew they had been qualified from the beginning to go to 3 if they chose. They did not need special permission from USASF to allot their additional bid, because they were eligible to give 3 in the first place.

ACA said that if they had known the correct information from the start, and seen how close bids #2 and #3 were score-wise, they would have announced from the start of awards that they were giving all 3. They also stated that they known the enrollment was as high as it turned out to be is year, they would advertised 3 from the start when sending out information about the event. I have no way to verify this, so I will just have to take Mr. Wagers at his word. (Something I am comfortable doing after knowing him for nearly 20 years.)

I am curious now how many other EPs are choosing not to give out their full compliment of bids.

This is fascinating because WCA (rightly) got completely raked over the coals when they were going to give one less paid bid. USASF told them that it is a contractual obligation and forced them to award the bid.

Apparently that rule was changed and now it's random or the rules are different for some.

I've pretty consistently defended USASF and promoted the fact that, even with problems, their existence has been a large net gain for the sport.

It's getting harder to do so.

 

[BlueCat]

This is fascinating because WCA (rightly) got completely raked over the coals when they were going to give one less paid bid. USASF told them that it is a contractual obligation and forced them to award the bid.

Apparently that rule was changed and now it's random or the rules are different for some.

I've pretty consistently defended USASF and promoted the fact that, even with problems, their existence has been a large net gain for the sport.

It's getting harder to do so.

My guess is that you can't go BELOW the number of advertised bids, but you could go UP assuming you were eligible. This makes sense to me as it would not be fair to offer more bids (enticing more teams to go to the event), then take them away to save money. Think of it as a company offering a cash prize to the grand champion. If they advertised $10,000 to the winner, then only gave $5,000, that would be considered deceptive. If they actually gave $20,000 instead of $10,000, then hardly anyone would get upset.