All-Star crossovers!!!

[klcsooner]

Thanks for clearing that up - I have never understood!

 

[f16cc028]

Silly question, but why don't all cheer companies follow the same rules for cross over? I think in some cases you can only cross at the same level?

I've always wondered that too..you think it would be regulated. And yes @ NCA you can only cross over to the same level, can only be on 2 different teams & only 5 crossovers/team.

Unless it is regulated by the USASF there will be variances among the competitions.

 

[tumbleyoda]

With all the money that is made on crossovers by competition companies and gyms I doubt very seriously that there is any real incentive or drive to regulate it any further than it is from that perspective. Personally I wish it was limited but I can see how true and impartial enforcement of it would be a never ending nightmare.

 

[wcdad]

I posted this on the other board.

Here is the harm that can come from Double and Triple teaming. Most of these athletes are all under the age of 18. The body is not designed for continues reparative pounding twisting motion. The body needs cross training and very little to none is done in this sport. In addition the body needs down time, complete rest and there is not a team out there that takes a month off so the athletes can rest. The season goes till April, than every one ramps up for a new season tryouts in May and than start all over again.

EVERY MAJOR SPORT has an off season. For the simple fact that the athletes need the time to rest. In Little League and Base Ball they have pitch counts for the pitchers so the kids and athletes do not blow out the arm. The same thing is happing to these young kids in this sport, they are pounding there legs, knees, ankles and lower backs over and over again.

Look at all of the Braces that are on a floor during a comp. Yes the kids like to do 2 or 3 teams, but we as parents as well as coaches have to take a stand some times. It is a proven fact that it is not healthy for the body. I know I want my daughter to be able to walk down the isle when she gets married. I want to be able to dance with her on her wedding day. I have seen to many injuries that have left kids almost crippled where they are in pain to get out of bed in the morning and they are not even out of college yet.

My daughter spent 12 to 16 hrs a week in the gym working on her skills, 2 stress fractures on her ankle later it was her Orthopedic that was shocked that there is no regulations on the sport for training and repetition and off season.

With all that being said, to fill in for an injury is a different story until the cheerleader can be replaced or return.

A competitive gymnast uses cross training. They do not work on the same skill over and over. They will be working on core and then will be allowed to do 2 maybe 3 passes of the skill and than move on to another set of core exercises and repeat the process for a different element.

I have yet to see a cheer team utilize core and cross training on a regular basis. It has only been the past several years that Cheerleading has developed to a year round sport. The human body no matter the age can not take the punishment. There needs to be time off for the body to recover no matter your age.

Yes other sports have longer practices but they are not year round sports. Football starts in August and ends in December. And the brunt of practice and training is in the beginning during the first month or two. Baseball as I said before has pitch counts to protect the athlete from the repetitive motion so the arm is not blown out. Every other sport utilizes cross training but cheerleading.

I still contend that a child's body should not be subjected to the riggers and stress that double teaming by design will bring. The health of the child athlete should be protected by parents and coaches alike, as well as the USASF and its Member Gyms.

Just because it is a money maker for a company should not be a reason to allow crossovers. They do not allow them at worlds so I hope it will not be long until the rest of the companies follow suit.

Again filling in here or there for a injury or missing team mate is not the same as year round cross overs.

 

[tumbleyoda]

I posted this on the other board.

Here is the harm that can come from Double and Triple teaming. Most of these athletes are all under the age of 18. The body is not designed for continues reparative pounding twisting motion. The body needs cross training and very little to none is done in this sport. In addition the body needs down time, complete rest and there is not a team out there that takes a month off so the athletes can rest. The season goes till April, than every one ramps up for a new season tryouts in May and than start all over again.

EVERY MAJOR SPORT has an off season. For the simple fact that the athletes need the time to rest. In Little League and Base Ball they have pitch counts for the pitchers so the kids and athletes do not blow out the arm. The same thing is happing to these young kids in this sport, they are pounding there legs, knees, ankles and lower backs over and over again.

Look at all of the Braces that are on a floor during a comp. Yes the kids like to do 2 or 3 teams, but we as parents as well as coaches have to take a stand some times. It is a proven fact that it is not healthy for the body. I know I want my daughter to be able to walk down the isle when she gets married. I want to be able to dance with her on her wedding day. I have seen to many injuries that have left kids almost crippled where they are in pain to get out of bed in the morning and they are not even out of college yet.

My daughter spent 12 to 16 hrs a week in the gym working on her skills, 2 stress fractures on her ankle later it was her Orthopedic that was shocked that there is no regulations on the sport for training and repetition and off season.

With all that being said, to fill in for an injury is a different story until the cheerleader can be replaced or return.

A competitive gymnast uses cross training. They do not work on the same skill over and over. They will be working on core and then will be allowed to do 2 maybe 3 passes of the skill and than move on to another set of core exercises and repeat the process for a different element.

I have yet to see a cheer team utilize core and cross training on a regular basis. It has only been the past several years that Cheerleading has developed to a year round sport. The human body no matter the age can not take the punishment. There needs to be time off for the body to recover no matter your age.

Yes other sports have longer practices but they are not year round sports. Football starts in August and ends in December. And the brunt of practice and training is in the beginning during the first month or two. Baseball as I said before has pitch counts to protect the athlete from the repetitive motion so the arm is not blown out. Every other sport utilizes cross training but cheerleading.

I still contend that a child's body should not be subjected to the riggers and stress that double teaming by design will bring. The health of the child athlete should be protected by parents and coaches alike, as well as the USASF and its Member Gyms.

Just because it is a money maker for a company should not be a reason to allow crossovers. They do not allow them at worlds so I hope it will not be long until the rest of the companies follow suit.

Again filling in here or there for a injury or missing team mate is not the same as year round cross overs.

I saw where you posted this before and I agree with it. At some point you will do more harm than good and then you raise a greater risk of losing that same athlete to injury or burn out. IIRC here the owner has around a 10% or so rule for crossovers which is wonderful.

 

[wcdad]

Don't get me wrong I understand that the kids love to double team. They also love candy and sweets. As a parent are you going to let your kid sit down and eat as much of it as they want every day? lol

 

[tumbleyoda]

Don't get me wrong I understand that the kids love to double team. They also love candy and sweets. As a parent are you going to let your kid sit down and eat as much of it as they want every day? lol

You are right. If done in a well managed way with proper rest and training it can be done well. As a parent you have to set the rules and not be sucked in by all of the benefits witout considering all of the risks.

 

[BlueCat]

Added to the increased physical strain, you also have increased risk of burnout.

 

[tumbleyoda]

Added to the increased physical strain, you also have increased risk of burnout.

Which happens more than we like to admit.

 

[Level5Mom]

Wcdad, I'd like to hear more about how gymnasts train (if you know, or anyone else on here for that matter). I have always thought that gymnasts train year round, much like the way cheerleaders train now. Except I do know that in gymnastics they have 3 additional elements beyond floor, so they must divide their time among the events. I also know that a HUGE part of gymnastics is conditioning every practice, along with flexibility. Do you have more knowledge on this subject? I have never heard that they were only allowed to do 3(ish) passes per practice. But then again, I have no prior gymnastics experience, nor do I know any competitive gymnasts.

I have always thought that a tumbler doesn't take time off because they tend to lose skill. I take it they don't take time off (like an off-season), but it sounds to me like they do much less per practice?

Please tell me more about how they train! Sorry my request is so vague, but I am not sure how to ask what I want to know lol.

 

[Icclove]

Wcdad, I'd like to hear more about how gymnasts train (if you know, or anyone else on here for that matter). I have always thought that gymnasts train year round, much like the way cheerleaders train now. Except I do know that in gymnastics they have 3 additional elements beyond floor, so they must divide their time among the events. I also know that a HUGE part of gymnastics is conditioning every practice, along with flexibility. Do you have more knowledge on this subject? I have never heard that they were only allowed to do 3(ish) passes per practice. But then again, I have no prior gymnastics experience, nor do I know any competitive gymnasts.

I have always thought that a tumbler doesn't take time off because they tend to lose skill. I take it they don't take time off (like an off-season), but it sounds to me like they do much less per practice?

Please tell me more about how they train! Sorry my request is so vague, but I am not sure how to ask what I want to know lol.

My daughter team would take the summer off to rest athletes. They would offer summer camps/clinics 1 to 2 days per week but they are really like open gym to keep skills, strength and flexibility in check and they would only run for about 1.5 to 2 hours unlike practice which is like 4 to 5 hours 5 days per week. Gymnast don't really lose their tumbling skills because they are taught technique as oppose to cheerleading (not all) to just throw it. Of all of the disciplines floor was the least worked and the most focus was on strength, conditioning and flexibility. As for overuse injuries I take my children to a chiropractor at least every quarter and a massage therapist at least twice a month. No major injuries so far. 8)

 

[Level5Mom]

My daughter team would take the summer off to rest athletes. They would offer summer camps/clinics 1 to 2 days per week but they are really like open gym to keep skills, strength and flexibility in check and they would only run for about 1.5 to 2 hours unlike practice which is like 4 to 5 hours 5 days per week. Gymnast don't really lose their tumbling skills because they are taught technique as oppose to cheerleading (not all) to just throw it. Of all of the disciplines floor was the least worked and the most focus was on strength, conditioning and flexibility. As for overuse injuries I take my children to a chiropractor at least every quarter and a massage therapist at least twice a month. No major injuries so far. 8)

But it's not an off-season if they are still training, even though it may be lower-key, they are training. Cheer tumblers do not train 4-5 hours 5 days per week, and most do not train 5 days per week. I can't speak for other programs, but my cp's gym is very low-key from May-July. I'm not trying to argue with you, btw, I'm just trying to learn! I do like the conditioning that I've heard gymnasts do. It makes me wonder how amazing cheer tumblers COULD be if they conditioned like gymnasts!

 

[spirited1]

My daughter did gymnastics before she was a cheerleader. She was only a level 4 gymnast but even at that lower level and at the young age she was, her coach made those kids do major conditioning every single practice. A couple of the things I remember them doing was hanging upside down on a bar-type apparatus and having to do many, many inverted sit-ups...they had to climb a 25-30 foot rope using only their hands while having their legs in a pike position the entire time...and the list goes on and on with conditioning moves like this! It is unbelievable how much emphasis is placed on proper conditioning in the world of gymnastics. I remember seeing little girls at about 5-6 yrs old sporting serious six packs! I have also seen this in cheerleaders, but not to the extent you see it in gymnasts. I do think the cheer world could use a little more emphasis on conditioning, maybe not as extreme as the gymnasts do, but certainly more than is done now.

 

[CDRCoach17]

Well if you ask my kids, conditioning is a major part. They have to pass a physical fitness test before they can be put in the routine. It is to get them in shape, but also to keep them motivated and working hard. It is very easy to get distracted over the summer. The test includes 44 standing backhandsprings to music, 8 suicide sprints in under 35 seconds, and 200 jumping jacks. You have to pass 2 out of 3. (usually some don't pass the suicides. It isn't because they are out of shape..they just are not fast enough). Of course the times and numbers vary by age group.

 

[Cheerfullmom]

44 bhs in a row? I bet they are super dizzy afterwards, lol!