All-Star Design the perfect scoring system

[King]

I think you do need a limit though. 1000ths is a bit silly. How about 100ths?

So you could get a 7.56 on dif and .37 on execution. Like that?

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[CGAcheer]

There needs to be some type of overall impression or routine construction/flow score.

You wouldn't want a jacked up terrible routine that just went through and hit all the skill elements to win. you want the team that hits all of the skill categories and looks good while doing it to win

 

[King]

There needs to be some type of overall impression or routine construction/flow score.

You wouldn't want a jacked up terrible routine that just went through and hit all the skill elements to win. you want the team that hits all of the skill categories and looks good while doing it to win

How would a team execute skills really well to win but have a bad routine?

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[BlueCat]

There needs to be some type of overall impression or routine construction/flow score.

You wouldn't want a jacked up terrible routine that just went through and hit all the skill elements to win. you want the team that hits all of the skill categories and looks good while doing it to win

Then have a "routine choreography" section, but don't leave it open-ended for the judges to throw in their own preferences (as much.)

KING: I doubt that any judge would use more than 1 extra digit, but there really isn't a practical reason why you should limit it. The differences in score beyond that are so incredibly minimal that it would rarely affect anything. They should be able to go as far past tenths as the event producer is willing to go down to to break ties. If an event producer would let 1/1000th of a point separate teams from tying, then judges should be allowed, if they wish, to give scores to 1/1000th of a point.

Rephrased: If the event producer thinks that a difference of .0001 is enough to decide a national/world title, then that says to me that judges are accurate enough to adjust their own scores to within .0001. Wherever the event producer wants to round off the scores, limit the judge to that many degrees of significance.

 

[BlueCat]

How would a team execute skills really well to win but have a bad routine?

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Perhaps they are skilled athletes, but they lacked the same enthusiasm as someone whose perceived gender identity has differed from their physical gender identity.

 

[King]

Then have a "routine choreography" section, but don't leave it open-ended for the judges to throw in their own preferences (as much.)

KING: I doubt that any judge would use more than 1 extra digit, but there really isn't a practical reason why you should limit it. The differences in score beyond that are so incredibly minimal that it would rarely affect anything. They should be able to go as far past tenths as the event producer is willing to go down to to break ties. If an event producer would let 1/1000th of a point separate teams from tying, then judges should be allowed, if they wish, to give scores to 1/1000th of a point.

Rephrased: If the event producer thinks that a difference of .0001 is enough to decide a national/world title, then that says to me that judges are accurate enough to adjust their own scores to within .0001. Wherever the event producer wants to round off the scores, limit the judge to that many degrees of significance.

JODY: Did I spell that right?

I think most people psychologically need a bit of box to truly feel comfortable. So does the 1000th place make a difference nunerically? Nah. But knowing the range and being comfortable is important to being able to judge as correctly as possible.

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[BlueCat]

I was just saying give the judges the option. If they are only comfortable making 10 different levels of difficulty among the spectrum of teams that inhabit each division, then they use tenths. If they find themselves wanting to have a more precise way to determine the World Champion between 2 super-elite teams, then they should have the option.

Again, there is no practical reason to force the rounding of scores. If a judge has given a team a .6 for Team A, a .7 for Team B - then decides that Team C is somewhere in between those two, they shouldn't be forced to tie them with a team that they feel is better/worse just because the guy typing in scores doesn't want to hit an extra key.

If the argument is that judges are only capable of fairly giving scores to tenths, then ALL scores should be rounded to tenths and ties given out if teams are closer than .05 apart in their final score.

Example: If 3 scientists disagree on the beginning of the Mesozoic Era - 2 think it was about 260 million years ago and another thinks that it was about 250 million years ago. You can't then definitively say the Mesozoic Era started exactly 256,666,666 years and 243 days and 8 hours ago. You don't gain that kind of precision among 3 estimates just by adding them together and taking the average.

Bottom line, let the judges use the numbers they feel comfortable with. If they want to just go with .7 - fine. If they want to go .725, no real reason not to let them.

 

[King]

I was just saying give the judges the option. If they are only comfortable making 10 different levels of difficulty among the spectrum of teams that inhabit each division, then they use tenths. If they find themselves wanting to have a more precise way to determine the World Champion between 2 super-elite teams, then they should have the option.

Again, there is no practical reason to force the rounding of scores. If a judge has given a team a .6 for Team A, a .7 for Team B - then decides that Team C is somewhere in between those two, they shouldn't be forced to tie them with a team that they feel is better/worse just because the guy typing in scores doesn't want to hit an extra key.

If the argument is that judges are only capable of fairly giving scores to tenths, then ALL scores should be rounded to tenths and ties given out if teams are closer than .05 apart in their final score.

Example: If 3 scientists disagree on the beginning of the Mesozoic Era - 2 think it was about 260 million years ago and another thinks that it was about 250 million years ago. You can't then definitively say the Mesozoic Era started exactly 256,666,666 years and 243 days and 8 hours ago. You don't gain that kind of precision among 3 estimates just by adding them together and taking the average.

Bottom line, let the judges use the numbers they feel comfortable with. If they want to just go with .7 - fine. If they want to go .725, no real reason not to let them.

We can keep this point open for discussion for later. I think structure helps people a lot, as long as it is not too limiting. You don't want to limit someone at all besides the limits. Let's move on to other parts and come back to it.

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[BlueCat]

We can keep this point open for discussion for later. I think structure helps people a lot, as long as it is not too limiting. You don't want to limit someone at all besides the limits. Let's move on to other parts and come back to it.

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True. I veered off course a bit.

 

[Evergreen]

I would like to see the "cheer" section taken off of score sheets for all-star. All star teams don't really do a cheer anymore, i'm not listening for voices, they aren't doing motions. Leave it in for schools and rec teams.

Also, I'd like a showmanship category. This would include "fierceness", the overall "look" of a team (hair, makeup, uniforms). I think this has become a bigger part of the sport.

 

[Jessica]

I would like to see the "cheer" section taken off of score sheets for all-star. All star teams don't really do a cheer anymore, i'm not listening for voices, they aren't doing motions. Leave it in for schools and rec teams.

Also, I'd like a showmanship category. This would include "fierceness", the overall "look" of a team (hair, makeup, uniforms). I think this has become a bigger part of the sport.

I would not like to see "cheer" left off the score sheets. Motions are a part of cheerleading and the judges should have a place to score them. If a team doesn't have good motions then they are not well rounded just as much as if they didnt have good tumbling/stunting/jumps/dancing.

 

[CGAcheer]

How would a team execute skills really well to win but have a bad routine?

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there could be a horribly choreographed routine with well executed level appropriate skills.
I hope this hasn't happened before, but imagine a routine that opened with a pyramid sequence then moved to a stunt, then set out and just walked to another stunt with different groups then changed again for a basket toss, then cheered, then danced then jumps/standing tumbling and finished with running tumbling with everyone just standing around except for the last pass.
They would have hit all the skill elements, but it would have been a bad routine

 

[King]

there could be a horribly choreographed routine with well executed level appropriate skills.
I hope this hasn't happened before, but imagine a routine that opened with a pyramid sequence then moved to a stunt, then set out and just walked to another stunt with different groups then changed again for a basket toss, then cheered, then danced then jumps/standing tumbling and finished with running tumbling with everyone just standing around except for the last pass.
They would have hit all the skill elements, but it would have been a bad routine

So what you want to prevent is a bad order in elements? And the motions and transitions categories I mentioned would get killed for them cause it sounds like they didn't do any.

But overall impression can literally make up for all lack of skills or take the most skilled team to last. That is not ok.

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[King]

I would like to see the "cheer" section taken off of score sheets for all-star. All star teams don't really do a cheer anymore, i'm not listening for voices, they aren't doing motions. Leave it in for schools and rec teams.

Also, I'd like a showmanship category. This would include "fierceness", the overall "look" of a team (hair, makeup, uniforms). I think this has become a bigger part of the sport.

Showmanship is part of the execution I think. If you do squad doubles and execute the skill well, but do not perform I think you will see a hit. Not huge, but it be hard to reward the exectution of something to the fullest if its just dead out there.

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[King]

OK, What do people like about non-varsity scoresheets (well... NCA since that is the one I think is mathematically the fairest). What parts are good?