All-Star Division I And Division Ii At Worlds - Big Gym Separation

[King]

I will see if I can say it a different way. It is one thing to see the current situation and environment and be upset by it and want it to change. It is another to realize that you have to change the environment to actually product a change.

 

[tumbleyoda]

Empower the gyms to be able to do things on their own once all the challenges have been figured out (scoring, safety, finding competition, etc...) and you don't need one giant unifying organization. But as long as it takes great effort to find competition in any level current things wont change. I really like the idea of the CL, Rev Cheer, others but for them all to succeed they need to have a very successful co-competition that goes on during / after the Level 5 showcase. When you look at it from that perspective it is MUCH harder for them to strongly succeed and get that second competition off the ground.

Coming from gymnastics background where we put our own local comps together (in the 80', 90's etc) I agree with you. We never had issues with no enough competition and that was not only when I worked for the big Mega gym type Gymnastics Centers and the small mom and pop cheer and daycare type places. My contention however inelegant or harsh sounding is that under the current set up there is no incentive of the current central power for the empowering of gyms to do what you say. None.

 

[BlueCat]

more powerful and effective way to create change is create a way gyms compete directly with themselves and not need a mediator (aka an EP). Somewhat like what CL is doing (and Rev Cheer and maybe allstar games) but CL, for example, still fell back to using an EP and still has not conquered the problems that prevent this event from being overly successful. There needs to be a universal scoresheet that emphasizes objective (difficulty) and subjective (execution / performance / creativity).

No one has suggested here that event producers do not have a vital place in the industry. CL is not trying to eliminate the people who provide that service. The typical gym owner has neither the time nor desire to negotiate contracts with venues, hire judges, mediate disputes, etc. The amount of overall control currently held by the EPs far exceeds what it should be, however.

The universal scoresheet is a great example of a project that can benefit the industry without handing more control to the powers-that-be.

I will see if I can say it a different way. It is one thing to see the current situation and environment and be upset by it and want it to change. It is another to realize that you have to change the environment to actually product a change.

I don't necessarily agree with the you on the best path to get to there, but I do agree with this statement wholeheartedly.

 

[tumbleyoda]

I will see if I can say it a different way. It is one thing to see the current situation and environment and be upset by it and want it to change. It is another to realize that you have to change the environment to actually product a change.

I agree .

Seriously I am not trying to be conspiratorial, but having seen it work the same exact way in my other area of relative knowledge, and expertise it does concern me. The issues I see and have seen for years is risk and concern of being blackballed. I think if people that truly had not only the ideas, but the power, $$$ to make those changes felt they could create the models you are describing without being "politely uninvited" from prestige events, meetings and functions, they would. This is where I fear the athlete registration/coaches registration can be used in a negative manner. Something again I have voiced for years, but now we are closer to seeing this possibility.

 

[King]

Seriously I am not trying to be conspiratorial, but having it work the same exact way in my other area of relative knowledge, and expertise it does concern me. The issues I see and have seen for years is risk and concern of being blackballed. I think if people that truly had not only the ideas, but the power, $$$ to make those changes felt they could create the models you are describing without being "politely uninvited" from prestige events, meetings and functions, they would. This is where I fear the athlete registration/coaches registration can be used in a negative manner. Something again I have voiced for years, but now we are closer to seeing this possibility.

Athlete Registration has to happen with the way things are setup now for our current environment to improve. When I see people against AR it is not because of AR itself but that it strengthens how our current system is run. I would say the more energy spent on changing the system and how to change the system and the less energy worried about AR and D1/D2 would produce the results you want. AR and D1/D2 are fantastic distractions from the root cause of everything.

 

[BlueCat]

Potential abuse of power issues aside, I would be more in favor of AR if USASF was a smooth, efficient operation that looked ready to take on another huge logistical challenge. So far, our experience in trying to get our athletes properly registered has been miserable.

 

[King]

Potential abuse of power issues aside, I would be more in favor of AR if USASF was a smooth, efficient operation that looked ready to take on another huge logistical challenge. So far, our experience in trying to get our athletes properly registered has been miserable.

Proper user interface design FTW!

 

[tumbleyoda]

Athlete Registration has to happen with the way things are setup now for our current environment to improve. When I see people against AR it is not because of AR itself but that it strengthens how our current system is run. I would say the more energy spent on changing the system and how to change the system and the less energy worried about AR and D1/D2 would produce the results you want. AR and D1/D2 are fantastic distractions from the root cause of everything.

Well I would just let you and Blue Cat run it. Root cause of problem solved.

My issue is not with AR but the potential for misuse, especially under the current power set up. Doesn't mean it should not be done. We need it yet we don't fully trust those that are in charge of the process and outcomes of it. That is where the problem is.

 

[BlueCat]

Proper user interface design FTW!

We told them we could get them ALL of the information for 1000 athletes in any format they wanted. We were told, nope, they could only be entered by hand and each account set up separately. (think emails, addresses, names, parent names, etc.) I thought they were kidding at first.

 

[King]

We told them we could get them ALL of the information for 1000 athletes in any format they wanted. We were told, nope, they could only be entered by hand and each account set up separately. (think emails, addresses, names, parent names, etc.) I thought they were kidding at first.

And it was probably built in MS Access....

 

[cupieqt]

We told them we could get them ALL of the information for 1000 athletes in any format they wanted. We were told, nope, they could only be entered by hand and each account set up separately. (think emails, addresses, names, parent names, etc.) I thought they were kidding at first.

I have been working on this for weeks and I only have 75 athletes. I can't even imagine how much extra work this is for your staff.

@King what's up with the terrible registration website? It's so not user friendly. I remarked to the team mom helping me with this just yesterday that you would be appalled lol


ETA: sorry for the thread hijack but y'all brought up AR and I've been dealing with this headache for weeks now so it touched a nerve.

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[NJ Coach]

Not even kidding, the AR is the worst system EVER. Completely impossible and utterly aggravating.

 

[King]

As someone who spends a lot of time and effort on design it amazes me when people think utility is enough to make something successful. They think making something easy to use is a luxury. In reality something easy and a pleasure to use prevents error and increases adoption and lowers complaints. It may cost more in the beginning but costs way less in the end. An ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure.

 

[Ashley]

We told them we could get them ALL of the information for 1000 athletes in any format they wanted. We were told, nope, they could only be entered by hand and each account set up separately. (think emails, addresses, names, parent names, etc.) I thought they were kidding at first.

This is astounding to me. I work in IT and we'll go out of our way to import data for our users so they don't have to manually insert each one - even if there isn't an official way to do so.

 

[StuntMonkey]

And it was probably built in MS Access....

NOOOOOOOOOOO.... (picture me howling in despair)

You have no idea the travesty of systems designed around MS Access -- how many broken dreams I've had to prop up by 'fixing' things written by amateurs who have been given tools that they don't fully understand. Use it for your home recipe collection if you have to but never try to make it the core of a multi-user system. Thank heavens I rarely ever have to deal with it anymore.