All-Star International Coed 5/all-girl 5 Thoughts

[Deleted member 5411]

"The mission of the U.S. All Star Federation is to maximize the number of participants benefiting from the positive life experiences of all star cheerleading and dance by developing competition rules and all star gym training guidelines consistent with the latest best known safety, educational, and ethical practices." - USASF Mission Statement

Enacting policies which deliberately push kids out the door of all star gyms would go directly against this.

If college programs are having trouble keeping kids interested in what they are doing, then they need to find ways to make it a more attractive option. (more scholarship money, etc). It isn't our job to keep making all star less attractive to try to run off customers.

My personal opinion is that all star does a much better job of appealing to the competition aspect of the sport than college cheerleading. There is absolutely a place for college (and HS) cheer, but it increasingly is more focused on game time spirit and supporting the schools athletic programs. I'm not sure that is a bad thing, actually.

Well said. My daughter, for one, has done both college and allstar. She doesn't like college. Doesn't like sideline cheer and the beating the 2" gives the older, worn out cheer body.
She is now back on spring floor, in allstars, competing.....which is what she loves.
I honestly haven't read the pages before where this discussion started, but I will do so now. I just totally agree with what Blue Cat said. There has to be a place in both allstars and college for college age athletes. Allstar shouldn't have to take it on the chops because colleges can't keep their kids interested. My daughter did college cheer for one of the elite schools and never saw a penny of scholorship money.

 

[King]

Well said. My daughter, for one, has done both college and allstar. She doesn't like college. Doesn't like sideline cheer and the beating the 2" gives the older, worn out cheer body.
She is now back on spring floor, in allstars, competing.....which is what she loves.
I honestly haven't read the pages before where this discussion started, but I will do so now. I just totally agree with what Blue Cat said. There has to be a place in both allstars and college for college age athletes. Allstar shouldn't have to take it on the chops because colleges can't keep their kids interested. My daughter did college cheer for one of the elite schools and never saw a penny of scholorship money.

I don't think anyone here is 'against' I5. In fact, I think Open teams are great! The two things I am against:

1. Allowing minors and adults to be on the same team as equals. All club teams are 18- and all adult teams are for ADULTS that are 18+.

2. Paid bids going to Open teams. But if the said change I described above was made so that ONLY adults could compete with adults (hence being open) than I would be ok with paid bids going to open teams.

 

[BSS2000]

Plus we tumble on football field, so we're used to the surface. I think bringing a springfloor to college nationals would increase the relationship with colleges and allstar gyms!

I can double in the grass, at least I've done it before, would never do it now, but grass and hard floor are different. Grass is little more forgiving.

I have to agree though that college nationals on spring would definitely help bridge the gap between all stars and college for some people.
How many colleges competing at college nationals have absolutely no access to an all star gym? Who knows, with more of these colleges using local all star facilities it might actually help the recruitment process into college cheer. Now which out weighs the other to you, fairness to the schools with no spring floor access or the well being of almost every athlete involved in the sport?

 

[Deleted member 5411]

I am prepared for the beating I am going to receive, so here it goes.

To the USASF, please stop allowing these two divisions from receiving PAID bids to Worlds. As a parent who has spent thousands of dollars on allstar cheer, I say let the young adults who have aged out pay there own way. Many of the members of these teams are well into their twenties. Give the paid bids to the teams that pay the bills. All these teams are fun to watch and I am sure my daughter will want to continue on after this year. I know I am going to get creamed for this simply because most people reading this are not paying parents, but current or former cheerleaders. Just my opinion.

Oh and Fire is my choice for gold.

I'm late on this....it's probably been discussed to death....sorry. BUT I am a paying parent & trust me there are a whole lot of parents who are still paying for cheer and college. There is nothing wrong with that. I hate when people get all blustery and think just because you are 21 you can afford to pay for cheer, or you shouldn't do it. It's really easy to judge when you're not in the frying pan yourself. I could say if a child is in High School they can pay for cheer themselves. It makes more sense to say that because High School is free.
Not meant to be confrontational, or to ruffle feathers, but if a Division is allowed at Worlds, then they should be given the same courtesy as all the other Divisions....and that includes paid bids.

 

[King]

I can double in the grass, at least I've done it before, would never do it now, but grass and hard floor are different. Grass is little more forgiving.

I have to agree though that college nationals on spring would definitely help bridge the gap between all stars and college for some people.
How many colleges competing at college nationals have absolutely no access to an all star gym? Who knows, with more of these colleges using local all star facilities it might actually help the recruitment process into college cheer. Now which out weighs the other to you, fairness to the schools with no spring floor access or the well being of almost every athlete involved in the sport?

We don't find it unfair that people have to have mats. I am aware of colleges that dont have mats. Why not just compete on basketball floors, because all schools have basketball floors?

 

[Deleted member 5411]

I'm not attacking your arguments but I would just like to point out that your age proposal might cause problems in other countries, for example here in England our age ranges are slightly different (juniors is age 15 and under, and seniors is all members 10+ with one or more member 16+). In England we don't have a huge number of true level 5 athletes so your age propositions would make it even more difficult to form a proper level 5 team - Englands best coed 5 team has athletes age 16 - 20 something year olds, changing the ages would cut talent from this team. Although it may benefit US cheerleading it may hinder the progression of high level international cheerleading.

Also to get a bid to compete at ICU all the teams would have to compete at UKCA, one of the least respected organisations in the UK (unless the rules have changed there are no levels which means the rules are very dodgy - junior teams are allowed to backtuck basket but not double down from two footed stunts such as preps because it isn't safe UKCA does not have a sprung floor, even at its nationals so the chances of the top UK teams going are very slim).

I absolutely love hearing from an athlete from outside the U.S. It does keep things in perspective and reminds us that there are reasons for these age requirements in International divisions. We do tend to focus on what we're used to in the States, and it is really nice to be reminded that we simply are not the center of the universe over here.
Thank you for reminding us! It truly is refreshing!

 

[Deleted member 5411]

I want to make one more comment and then I will be quite. (no I wont because I get really frustrated)

Try sitting in the arena on Sunday waiting on bid announcements, as a parent who has spent thousands of dollars to that point, knowing your team is in line for a paid bid. Then the announcer lets you know the a team of twenty somethings is going to worlds for free. The word free is used loosely. Now this team of twenty somethings was amazing, and should be with their age and talent level. Sorry, I know I sound bitter and it's because I was. Give the paid bids to the parents. They are the ones who have EARNED it.

Please don't try to convince me other wise by telling me how some programs use the IO levels for their L5. The big programs that dominate those divisions are full up with the twenty somethings.

I understand and I respect your opinion. We all should respect each other's right to their opinion.

Trust me, we have been on both sides of that situation. I just keep thinking what people say about just the plain old "who beat who" subject. Comments through the years always seem to come around to the opinion that if a team didn't win, they weren't as good as the team who did win and maybe the next year they will improve and the situation will end in their favor.

It is called competition because it is. Whoever was the best should win, regardless of what division they are in.

 

[Deleted member 5411]

An Event Producer giving money to a team that didn't pay entry fees doesn't make sense to me, but I still say it's their choice since it's their money.

My daughter is in Inernational and I have never heard of a team that doesn't have to pay for entry fees. We've never even been given a break, and always pay the same as all other divisions. Maybe they just do it differently where we're from?

 

[Deleted member 5411]

But I do want to add that from my point of view, IO5 teams do not pay any fees to the gym. Keep in mind I only have one point of view. If you are out of high school and on a IO5 team that you have to pay fees for, you need to consider relocating.

Every gym we've ever been at charge International fees, also. Nothing is free. In fact, it isn't even reduced. It's the same tuition as all other teams in the gym.

 

[Deleted member 5411]

I don't think anyone here is 'against' I5. In fact, I think Open teams are great! The two things I am against:

1. Allowing minors and adults to be on the same team as equals. All club teams are 18- and all adult teams are for ADULTS that are 18+.

2. Paid bids going to Open teams. But if the said change I described above was made so that ONLY adults could compete with adults (hence being open) than I would be ok with paid bids going to open teams.

In essence I completely agree with having International (or Open, whichever the name shall be ) being adult aged. Although my daughter loves all the kids on her team, she has mentioned it would be a better experience if all the kids were college or above. Something about the maturity level and being on the same page during practice, etc.
I also understand the need for this division to have younger kids for the smaller gyms that would not be able to field a level 5 without combining ages.

Mainly, I just go where I'm told to go and pay what I can afford to pay when told to. Cheer when I'm suppose to cheer. Typical mom stuff. LOL

I have learned in this life that the small things will work out and in the end most things are small things.

I love reading all the opinions. I usually don't shimmy, but I found myself shimmying a lot. It was like "I like that thought" and then later "Well, gee, that thought was great, too". It is a very interesting subject and it will be interesting to see how it will all play out in the end.

 

[CheerKatie08]

I'm late on this....it's probably been discussed to death....sorry. BUT I am a paying parent & trust me there are a whole lot of parents who are still paying for cheer and college. There is nothing wrong with that. I hate when people get all blustery and think just because you are 21 you can afford to pay for cheer, or you shouldn't do it. It's really easy to judge when you're not in the frying pan yourself. I could say if a child is in High School they can pay for cheer themselves. It makes more sense to say that because High School is free.
Not meant to be confrontational, or to ruffle feathers, but if a Division is allowed at Worlds, then they should be given the same courtesy as all the other Divisions....and that includes paid bids.

couldn't have said it better. there was definitely a thread about this before... but long story short, you should check my work schedule & tuition fee from last year before saying that int'l teams don't deserve help getting to worlds. most of us are more on our own than highschoolers!

 

[Deleted member 5411]

Thanks, CheerKatie08. I know you college athletes have such full plates as it is, with financial commitments and working to meet those commitments...all thrown into the mix with college courses and degrees. My hat is off to each and everyone of you who are balancing all this in your young lives.

 

[Ashley]

We don't find it unfair that people have to have mats. I am aware of colleges that dont have mats. Why not just compete on basketball floors, because all schools have basketball floors?

There's a much bigger difference between non-spring and spring floor than with mats and no mats. My school, for example, did not have regular acces to an all-star gym, we were in a pretty rural area. When we did practice in an all star gym (rarely and only during school breaks) it messed up everyones tumbling.

 

[King]

There's a much bigger difference between non-spring and spring floor than with mats and no mats. My school, for example, did not have regular acces to an all-star gym, we were in a pretty rural area. When we did practice in an all star gym (rarely and only during school breaks) it messed up everyones tumbling.

So what is the cost difference? I honestly dont know. How much is a flat floor and how much is a spring floor? Lets go used for the sake of discussion.

 

[Rudags]

Did I miss somewhere that someone said that college students have money to pay? Everyone is jumping on this "Whoever said college people can pay..." but I havent seen anyone say that yet...