All-Star Just Read The Link Given For Icc/ice....

[kristenthegreat]

Thanks, and I completely understand your point of view as well (as always).

What if multiple kids accused him of it? At that point would you fire him if you were the gym owner?

Please refer back to one of my previous posts. My old teacher was accused by multiple girls- all because he separated their seats in class because they talked too much and were disruptive. This was done by 9 year old girls..

 

[King]

Please refer back to one of my previous posts. My old teacher was accused by multiple girls- all because he separated their seats in class because they talked too much and were disruptive. This was done by 9 year old girls..

I think our natural tendency is to believe that all men are bad and all little girls are innocent.

 

[kristenthegreat]

I think our natural tendency is to believe that all men are bad and all little girls are innocent.

It just proved how much they didn't GET it..they didn't realize how destructive what they were saying was. And for how PETTY a reason. Made me so sad

 

[cupieqt]

I think our natural tendency is to believe that all men are bad and all little girls are innocent.

Probably why you don't see many male teachers in the elementary schools too. Around here there are none except for principals.

 

[laughAlittle]

It just proved how much they didn't GET it..they didn't realize how destructive what they were saying was. And for how PETTY a reason. Made me so sad

you also gotta remember though that many times little kids say a teacher, for example, is touching them inappropriately and nothing gets done because no one believes them because they are "just little kids". you gotta take every scenario seriously. this is why we have the phrase "innocent until proven guilty" in our country.

 

[ztaprincess]

Probably why you don't see many male teachers in the elementary schools too. Around here there are none except for principals.

Really?? Throughout elementary school I only had 1 female teacher (not counting the music teacher and librarian). Where I grew up the majority of teachers at the schools were male. We also had several middle and high school teachers who started relationships with students (usually right after they graduated they would make it public).

Bottom line, the parents have the control in this. If there is any suspicion then LEAVE. A gym can't operate without paying customers. I don't care if it is the best gym in the country...just leave!

Exactly! I don't care of it didn't happen to your child it still happened to someone else's little girl.

I question what these parents who stuck around after the first owner did this thought to themselves when the second one was caught of the same thing.

 

[cupieqt]

Really?? Throughout elementary school I only had 1 female teacher (not counting the music teacher and librarian). Where I grew up the majority of teachers at the schools were male. We also had several middle and high school teachers who started relationships with students (usually right after they graduated they would make it public). [\QUOTE]

That was pure speculation on my part but yes we have almost zero male teachers until jr high/middle school and high school.

We did have one incident where a popular male teacher (one of my favorite teachers) was convicted of being a peeping tom and lost his job. He later married a former foreign exchange student after she graduated--she was a former student of his so it was gross. Looking back I can see he was a creep but when he was my teacher I thought he was so awesome.

 

[cupieqt]

Quote fail -_-

 

[lovdanz1995]

I apoligize because im still kind of new at this but where is this ICC/ICE document located at after reading this forum i really want to read it

I personally think passing a drug test should be madatory for all USASF competitions if you are under the influence of drugs you shouldnt be allowed to compete no questions asked! Almost every other sport enforces this policy and i personally think if the competitive cheerleading industry wants to be taken seriously as a sport the policy needs to be enforced. In my opion if you are serious about this sport or any sport in general you wont be on drugs! Gyms need to start forcing athletes to sign contracts saying that if they are under the influence of drugs or alchol at ANY point during the season they are kicked out of the gym and strongly enforce it. I personally feel that this would eliminate the majority of illegal activity between coachs and athletes when partying!

As for the other part it makes me sick that people can get away with molesting innocent children gym owners need to be present inside the gym when tumbling coaches are having privates and you shouldnt be able to open a gym that works with children under USASF if you are listed as a sexual predator. I understand that if a coach is doing their job it may be necessary to okwardly toach an athlete, if they are spotting them or saving there life catchhing them and if someone else is present in the gym with the coach and athlete they should be able to tell if the violation was necassary. Just my opion.

It's tough to set limits and boundries between coaches and athletes because the closer athletes are with there coaches the more they learn to trust them and the more quickly they get there skills the closer the team becomes with the coach the better the team bonds. But how far is too far? Thats the issue i mean if theres a party for the whole team the coaches should be able to celebrate with the athletes as long as they arnt drinking or doing drugs IMO Coaches and Athletes should have a healthy relationship it just shouldnt be taken too far!

 

[Future]

USA Gymnastics has not been sued and has not lost big time over this issue…they were the first Federation to post banned members for life.

 

[kristenthegreat]

I just googled USA gymnastics sued do not hire list:

http://usagym.org/pages/memclub/news/fall09/page2.html

Nothing came up, but this was their notice about hiring new coaches. Maybe USASF could release something like this to all gyms?

 

[Mamarazzi]

So, I've read this entire thread, and I agree most with the parent responsibility thing. Until cp's 18th birthday, I'll watch every private lesson, and you can call me Suzie's Mom all you want. I'll have my windex bottle in-hand for the nose prints I leave on the glass.
I wonder about the gyms with closed practices/privates. Can they all offer closed-circuit video, as a matter of protection? And how does a gym owner balance curbing psycho parents with protecting coaches from misinterpretation or accusation?

 

[quitthedrama]

In the ICE/ICC situation, I have no sympathy for the owners or the coach involved and feel awful for the families that were a part of this gym. In reading the court documentation, there was just too many instances where the gym owners had to have known there was an issue with this coach, and allowing him to stay in the gym is a crime in itself. Unfortunately, we have many young coaches in this industry - and some do not make sound choices (and in the ICC case some older coaches obv make very poor choices!). Sexual abuse is the worst, but harrassment and inappropriate behavior (i.e. coaches and athletes partying together) does seem to be more common than it should be. I think there is little USASF can do - although if a list can be used legally, this would be a great first step. On the other hand, we also have some unscrupulous consumers in this industry who would blackball a coach and ruin his/her career. It is a fine line to protect both the coach and the athletes, but it certainly can be done with diligence on the gym owner's part.
The one positive about this thread going public is I had a very in-depth talk with my oldest CP and plan to have one with my youngest (not quite so in-depth, and I really wouldn't have thought to do so if this situation hadn't been made public, because we have a small coaching staff and I know and trust them all very well, our gym has a television on in the parent area and my CPs have never been alone in the gym with a coach (I am pretty sure this is a gym policy). I told my oldest exactly what the court documents said and we talked a lot about it. As she gets older she is interacting with other coaches at high school and camps, and some of those coaches I have never met, so it was a very timely conversation.

 

[Just-a-Mom]

In the ICE/ICC situation, I have no sympathy for the owners or the coach involved and feel awful for the families that were a part of this gym. In reading the court documentation, there was just too many instances where the gym owners had to have known there was an issue with this coach, and allowing him to stay in the gym is a crime in itself. Unfortunately, we have many young coaches in this industry - and some do not make sound choices (and in the ICC case some older coaches obv make very poor choices!). Sexual abuse is the worst, but harrassment and inappropriate behavior (i.e. coaches and athletes partying together) does seem to be more common than it should be. I think there is little USASF can do - although if a list can be used legally, this would be a great first step. On the other hand, we also have some unscrupulous consumers in this industry who would blackball a coach and ruin his/her career. It is a fine line to protect both the coach and the athletes, but it certainly can be done with diligence on the gym owner's part.
The one positive about this thread going public is I had a very in-depth talk with my oldest CP and plan to have one with my youngest (not quite so in-depth, and I really wouldn't have thought to do so if this situation hadn't been made public, because we have a small coaching staff and I know and trust them all very well, our gym has a television on in the parent area and my CPs have never been alone in the gym with a coach (I am pretty sure this is a gym policy). I told my oldest exactly what the court documents said and we talked a lot about it. As she gets older she is interacting with other coaches at high school and camps, and some of those coaches I have never met, so it was a very timely conversation.

OK, just to clarify. If you guys READ the court documentation, he WAS ONE OF THE OWNERS. It says right in the first page of the court document that the sole shareholders are him and this other guy

(#4 under parties :　

"ICE" was incorporated in March, 2003 with its sole shareholders and officers being BRADLEY ABRAHAMS ...")

So obviously he was aware. He was NOT just a coach. Co-OWNER of the gym. And the second, more recent incident it was the other owner. Not coaches. Owners. And I have no problem putting them on here - it's public record, so I'm not just slinging around "alleged" accusations.

So the lesson learned from this is: You can't trust ANYONE with the safety and well being of your child except YOURSELF. So many of you are saying "Well, the gym owner should be aware of what's going on." Well, sometimes the gym owner is what's going on.

 

[cupieqt]

OK, just to clarify. If you guys READ the court documentation, he WAS ONE OF THE OWNERS. It says right in the first page of the court document that the sole shareholders are him and this other guy

(#4 under parties :　

"ICE" was incorporated in March, 2003 with its sole shareholders and officers being BRADLEY ABRAHAMS ...")

So obviously he was aware. He was NOT just a coach. Co-OWNER of the gym. And the second, more recent incident it was the other owner. Not coaches. Owners. And I have no problem putting them on here - it's public record, so I'm not just slinging around "alleged" accusations.

So the lesson learned from this is: You can't trust ANYONE with the safety and well being of your child except YOURSELF. So many of you are saying "Well, the gym owner should be aware of what's going on." Well, sometimes the gym owner is what's going on.

Thank you! Of the two incidents we have had in our area, BOTH times it's been the owners of their gyms.