Sot Bullying

[MissCongeniality]

A friend 's daughter (level 5 cheerleader) was diagnosed with PTSD. Yes, you can argue that perhaps she shouldn't have chosen all star cheer... Or maybe coaches yelling, calling names and threatening to replace her, played a role... I'd guess that it was very likely a combination of factors.

Regardless, a child's life is in shambles in large part due to something that started off as "fun".

 

[kristenthegreat]

A friend 's daughter (level 5 cheerleader) was diagnosed with PTSD. Yes, you can argue that perhaps she shouldn't have chosen all star cheer... Or maybe coaches yelling, calling names and threatening to replace her, played a role... I'd guess that it was very likely a combination of factors.

Regardless, a child's life is in shambles in large part due to something that started off as "fun".

PTSD FROM cheer? Or that cheer combined with other things has given her PTSD?

Because if it's the former- Dear me.

 

[MissCongeniality]

PTSD FROM cheer? Or that cheer combined with other things has given her PTSD?

Because if it's the former- Dear me.

I don't think with something like PTSD you can just isolate one thing (except maybe war) when you are talking about a teenage girl... But yes, per her Mom, the doctors say the cheer environment she was in was likely the main contributor.

Again, as I know plenty of others on same team with no PTSD... It has got to be a combination of factors, including personality. Still though...sad to know that coaching could contribute to this

 

[cheer25mom]

Not at a "big name" gym, but it have also been dealing with a coach that doesn't know how to talk to kids.


This year I have had the same coach tell my child "you need to be more like _______( insert name of other CP here). "You don't need to work on a BHS in your tumbling privates. Your back walkover isn't perfect", "you are fine. Cut the drama" when my 10 year old got a black eye saving a stunt. and the kicker. We had a performance this weekend. She went to the last practice before said performance sick because she didn't want to let the team down. By the second to last full out she was having obvious respiratory issues but wanted to push through the last 2 full outs. She coughing, breathing heavily, and was holding back tears, but said nothing to the coaches and I didn't intervene. Same coach looks at her and says " what's your problem? Why are you crying? If you can't handle it, go sit down" CP just told her she was fine, because it was clear from the coach's tone she was angry. Same coach told CP in performance warm up to "stop coughing and don't die". It's not always what she says, but often the tone she uses is condescending and just plain angry.
Do I think it is bullying? No. Do it think it is the wrong way to talk to anyone, much less a child? Yes. Do I think it is unprofessional and immature? Yes. She is young, and thinks she knows everything. No one can tell her a better way to do things, and anyone who tries is out to get her. I have said something about this particular coach several times, and it just doesn't seem to be sinking in that the problem is not getting fixed. Management says something to her and it gets better for a while, but then it is back to same old same old. There are parents at our gym that refuse to have her coach their kids. problem is that she is friends with the gym manager and owners. We love this gym and every other coach here so we are just chalking it up to experience dealing with people who choose to be less than nice. She is one person my child has to deal with, and she will not force her to give up something she loves to do.


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[catlady]

I just want to point out that even though you personally might not classify something as bullying, doesn't mean it isn't to another person, and I don't feel you have the right to say that someone is not being bullied. To me, bullying is persistent, unwanted behavior. The OP said this has happened before, and I would bet that the behavior was definitely unwanted, therefore I do believe it's bullying. Trying to belittle and embarrass a 9 year old is completely unacceptable. As much as we forget, cheerleading is an activity. It is not our lives. It's supposed to be for FUN. like Kristen said, if you aren't having fun, what's the point? It's unacceptable that a sport would have a negative factor on a NINE year olds self esteem. I truly hope this gets fixed and the coaches get the proper training they need. Also, just to be clear I'm not saying that if you don't think this is bullying you're wrong OR right, I'm just saying I believe it's unfair to directly tell someone that they are not being bullied
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Mama raised me to be a good girl (and some days, I want to curse her for that. It's a terrible thing )

Oh, of course - but hearing from others in this thread (and elsewhere) who have been to that gym and reported similar issues, I've become curious and a bit suspicious. My initial reaction to the OP was a touch of suspicion and thinking 'Was this REALLY bullying?' Then I considered- well, if someone laughed in my face when I was 9, I'd be a hysterical hot mess. I've been through the 'yelling' and 'you suck' style of coaching- but I was also much older. I don't EVER remember getting yelled at in competitive gymnastics (it was the Y and there were worse ways to get our attention lol), and even my AAU Volleyball. No idea why. All the yelling I got was in HS Volleyball.

Unfortunately, what we think "bullying" is, doesn't really matter anymore, the laws are defining what it is. There is "bullying" legislation in 49 states right now, Montana excluded. We can call it what we want, but in the state of Texas they have already determined what bullying is, and what the punishment can be. I certainly don't agree with an adult belittling a child or conducting themselves in an unprofessional manner, but the OP came on the board and accused SOT of what is now considered a crime in Texas. Whether or not what happened to the OP's child fits that definition, I don't know, but I do feel a judge should determine that before we open a thread and claim a crime has been committed.

 

[kristenthegreat]

Unfortunately, what we think "bullying" is, doesn't really matter anymore, the laws are defining what it is. There is "bullying" legislation in 49 states right now, Montana excluded. We can call it what we want, but in the state of Texas they have already determined what bullying is, and what the punishment can be. I certainly don't agree with an adult belittling a child or conducting themselves in an unprofessional manner, but the OP came on the board and accused SOT of what is now considered a crime in Texas. Whether or not what happened to the OP's child fits that definition, I don't know, but I do feel a judge should determine that before we open a thread and claim a crime has been committed.

I'm going to go out on a limb and open myself up a bit without providing any details, because you brought up a very interesting point.

I was involved in a very emotionally difficult personal situation about..a year and a half ago. For a long time, I was in denial that there even WAS a problem. I kept saying 'Oh, I'm just overreacting' 'It's not THAT bad' or 'was it REALLY that type of situation?' Do you know what it took for me to realize that there WAS a problem? The internet.

I came online, looked for people who were in my situation. People who had experienced what I experienced. No matter what my friends said, no matter who told me what, it took me going out and finding the information on my own for me to realize what was happening and what I was going through. If I hadn't done that- maybe I would have come to that decision anyway, but who knows how long I might have gone on blaming myself for my own suffering. Dealing with the pain of something that the OTHER person did wrong.

Maybe the OP didn't word this in the best way. They could have very well left out a gym name as is common here. But at the same time, I don't believe that coming on here and looking for some guidance and relieving a grievance is a bad thing. How could you know what you're dealing with isn't 'part and parcel' of this industry? It's not like you can always ask other parents..

 

[redshark]

I think a big issue with "though" coaching is what you're yelling about. I've had coaches yell at us to be sharper, ask us why we dropped a stunt and had to do it 10 more times, punish us with conditioning for messing up counts, and tell us we were practicing like a second place team. With those coaches, we've gone on to be stronger as a whole, push for better, improved ourselves, and placed well. The year I won Nationals was the year I had a coach that never backed off if we were preforming under our potential, and my favourite coach of all time.
When coaches get personal though, I find it much harder to accept what they are saying, and use it to make me better. "Why am I not surprised" isn't teaching an athlete work harder, it's telling them that failure is what's expected of them. Calling someone out for being loose in a dance is not the same as telling someone they look like a flailing animal when they try to dance. That's how insecurities are formed. It's so important IMO to focus on what is being done and why, leaving out any personal or just plain snide comments. It's literally difficult to look at someone when they make you feel bad about yourself, and almost impossible to form a bond with any coach like that.
I've had a coach dismiss me by excluding me from learning new skills, dramatically emphasizing that she was using me as a backup to her first choices, and telling me I wasn't capable of the very skills I threw the previous year. Though I wouldn't call it bullying, it wasn't just "tough coaching." My skills regressed over the year, and I felt excluded from the team whenever I stepped foot on the mat. I stuck through it though and this year on the same team, and a different coach, I'm flying level 6 baskets and pyramids for the first time. Instead of being told "I don't think you can do that" or "you don't do baskets," our new coach tells us when we're ready to try something new, and stays upfront if we're not up to par with her expectations. She yells way more than last year's coach, but it's about things that will make us better, not passive aggressive comments that just bring down our morale.
I think you need to be able to accept criticism if you want to participate in a competitive sport, but to be a coach, you also need to filter your criticism if you want good results.

 

[ufomom]

Unfortunately, what we think "bullying" is, doesn't really matter anymore, the laws are defining what it is. There is "bullying" legislation in 49 states right now, Montana excluded. We can call it what we want, but in the state of Texas they have already determined what bullying is, and what the punishment can be. I certainly don't agree with an adult belittling a child or conducting themselves in an unprofessional manner, but the OP came on the board and accused SOT of what is now considered a crime in Texas. Whether or not what happened to the OP's child fits that definition, I don't know, but I do feel a judge should determine that before we open a thread and claim a crime has been committed.

I disagree. The Fierceboard has always been a place for discourse and discussion. A member came on to discuss his experience that felt like bullying to him. I don't think judges need to be consulted. People are now discussing how they view it.

 

[CheerBank]

I think a big issue with "though" coaching is what you're yelling about. I've had coaches yell at us to be sharper, ask us why we dropped a stunt and had to do it 10 more times, punish us with conditioning for messing up counts, and tell us we were practicing like a second place team. With those coaches, we've gone on to be stronger as a whole, push for better, improved ourselves, and placed well. The year I won Nationals was the year I had a coach that never backed off if we were preforming under our potential, and my favourite coach of all time.
When coaches get personal though, I find it much harder to accept what they are saying, and use it to make me better. "Why am I not surprised" isn't teaching an athlete work harder, it's telling them that failure is what's expected of them. Calling someone out for being loose in a dance is not the same as telling someone they look like a flailing animal when they try to dance. That's how insecurities are formed. It's so important IMO to focus on what is being done and why, leaving out any personal or just plain snide comments. It's literally difficult to look at someone when they make you feel bad about yourself, and almost impossible to form a bond with any coach like that.
I've had a coach dismiss me by excluding me from learning new skills, dramatically emphasizing that she was using me as a backup to her first choices, and telling me I wasn't capable of the very skills I threw the previous year. Though I wouldn't call it bullying, it wasn't just "tough coaching." My skills regressed over the year, and I felt excluded from the team whenever I stepped foot on the mat. I stuck through it though and this year on the same team, and a different coach, I'm flying level 6 baskets and pyramids for the first time. Instead of being told "I don't think you can do that" or "you don't do baskets," our new coach tells us when we're ready to try something new, and stays upfront if we're not up to par with her expectations. She yells way more than last year's coach, but it's about things that will make us better, not passive aggressive comments that just bring down our morale.
I think you need to be able to accept criticism if you want to participate in a competitive sport, but to be a coach, you also need to filter your criticism if you want good results.

You brought up an excellent point - the difference between tough coaching and a personal attack on an athlete. While in the mind of a coach both might be used interchangeably to achieve what they feel is the same outcome, the emotional damage on the athlete from the latter tactic is just piss poor coaching IMHO.
My cp was subjected to that when a coach a few seasons ago decided to start using the catch phrase "it's so easy that (my cp's name) can do it" - belittling my cp's abilities in front of her team and really her causing emotional distress, especially when some of her own teammates started saying it too (which is when I addressed it with the coach as that was when it came to my attention).
Did I think her coach was bullying her though when she was saying that? No, not at all. I did think she was a pathetic human being and a terrible coach for even thinking it was okay to say that about any kid, let alone mine? Absolutely. Will cp ever cheer on a team that coach coaches ever again? Nope.


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[catlady]

@ufomom I view bullies as malicious and slanderous which is why I'm elated the laws have emerged to convict them of a crime. The OP has stated they believe "the owners are nice people", "there is no bashing of a coach", which contradicts what we or 49 states have been saying about bullies. I believe @Tuan Nguyen had very good intentions with the discussion, I admire them for taking their daughter out of an environment that wasn't right for her. However, if we are going to agree, as a society, that bullying is a crime that is worthy of criminal punishment, then I think we should use some discretion when using the terminology to label a business or a person. Otherwise, wouldn't that be considered just as malicious and slanderous?

 

[ufomom]

I think SOT is capable of handling an occasional slam. Most quality gyms are. Nine year olds, not so much so no I don't think the fact that he used the term bully is a reason to get all bent out of shape. There are no businesses that aren't going to get criticized sometime. Fierceboard is like the YELP of cheerleading and I would have to believe most readers take everything with a grain of salt. I do feel sorry for his daughter. That coach could have coached in a more mature and productive manner. Someone could have talked to the Daddy. It could have all been a series of missteps and misunderstanding that could have been handled more positively. Who knows?

 

[laughAlittle]

Has SOT said anything? Or are they acting like this "isn't a problem"?

 

[Dixie]

I found this article interesting. I think "psychological assault" will get more peoples attention and is a bit more descriptive than a blanket bullying statement.
The word ‘bullying’ should be replaced with ‘assault’ | Fox News


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[sports_girl]

Has SOT said anything? Or are they acting like this "isn't a problem"?

I can not imagine the gym NOT handling it .....but I still have a problem with the OP calling out a gym when it was a coach he should have called out ! I will say it again his daughter was "blocking " LONG before this season ( or the coach ).The gym did not move her down or take her out of routine . She quit on a "team" 1 week before they were to compete. As a parent I would have never allowed that ..my CP would have competed because she owes that to her TEAM . You NEVER do that to a team . Who cares about the coaches or gym but quitting on your team ...? Wow questionable parental guidance !


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[cheermuse]

I can not imagine the gym NOT handling it .....but I still have a problem with the OP calling out a gym when it was a coach he should have called out ! I will say it again his daughter was "blocking " LONG before this season ( or the coach ).The gym did not move her down or take her out of routine . She quit on a "team" 1 week before they were to compete. As a parent I would have never allowed that ..my CP would have competed because she owes that to her TEAM . You NEVER do that to a team . Who cares about the coaches or gym but quitting on your team ...? Wow questionable parental guidance !


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Perhaps the OP felt their CP emotional health was more important than a competition.