All-Star Too Many Boys On The Floor

[ROCKnROLLS]

So I have to know, @ACEDAD

It seems as if you are not all that fired up about Bangkok using more than 12 boys, and maybe even a bit defending it. As strong a stance as I know you have against cheating (we know our alcohol thread in the 18+ discussion), and knowing in 2009 they cut down to 12 boys, what do you think should happen to Bangkok for this year? We all move on? It was obvious to the staff at the USASF event and knew about it before finals. It says if you have a bad roster you should be disqualified and not allowed to come back to Worlds next year. And they gave them first. I guess I just don't see why it is all ok, but would love to know your opinion, and if you got an email back from the USASF.

Me personally, they don't get 1st. They are not disqualified, but they don't get 1st.

The USASF?IASF has some serious damage control to do. If this story would get out into the media i fear it would set back cheerleading.

 

[notimeforthat]

It's starting to bother me that we have not heard an "official" response from the USASF. I appreciate Les falling on the sword but really this matter is obviously not getting swept under the rug.

 

[ROCKnROLLS]

Any team that intentionally performed a round-off as a tumbling pass, is not a World champion in my eyes.
I'm usually the most supportive person of USASF on this board, and kind with my words when talking about these thing's, but I feel like they messed up massively by letting this slide. And I say "let it slide" because any USASF safety certified judge would call those pyramid legalitys. If they didn't notice them, then they have no business being up on the judges stand at Worlds. I don't mean to be harsh with words, but I judge because I love the sport, and want to help it continue to grow in both size and respect. This is a bad situation that looks bad on the credibility of not just the USASF, but Cheerleading as a whole.
Now on the fact that Bangkok was never warned or notified of rule violations and too many guys on the mat, that's all on the USASF. What should be done about it? I think that the USASF should release an official statement admitting to their mistake and apologizing to the teams in this division who followed the rules. They should not strip Bangkok of their title, because its ultimately USASFs fault for not calling out their rule infractions in advanced. Any team in violation should keep their place, but the teams below them move into the place about e and teams in violation will be considered a shared place. "Tie" . If any team doesn't except this offer, they should refund entry fees to the competition who gave them the bid and remove them from placements. This is the fairest way to handle the situation , and I hope the USASF does something about it for the sake of credibility of the entire cheer World.

Agreed. We as a sport can't be considered for NCAA or Olympic recognition without credibility.

 

[TealisLove_Jenn]

No. USASF has just sent the message that an international team cannot win on their own merits and must resort to cheating to do so. How is that what an international team wants to see? After this fiasco, if they truly earn the win, they will sit and question why they won, and if it was just a sympathy win. Who wants that kind of victory?

A canadian team won IO6 and as far as I know there were no legality issues with their routine and if there were I'm sure the deductions were taken into account. But I'm sure they are not sitting at home wondering if they won because they cheated. I understand your point but I don't feel because of this if an international team will ever feel this way. I'm pretty sure they will feel ecstatic about their win.
I'm sure bangkok unless they are on the boards or have been informed as such are just still completely excited because they won. If was Les is saying is how things did indeed go down I'm sure they have accepted the fact that they were supposed to receive a deduction and were still able to win with it. You could see the joy on their faces to just be competing on that mat and have the crowd cheer for them, I doubt they came to Worlds with the intention to win, much like every other international team. I feel this whole situation is just extremely unfortunate, as they put on numerous great performances throughout the weekend. But I do hope in the end everything works out and what really happened comes to light.

 

[TXcheermom]

Shouldn't the moderators on this board be impartial and not "call out teams" as YOU have posted as others should do on other threads....also, as Texas Lonestar has a "horse in this race" so to speak, am disappointed that you are choosing to weigh in on this subject.

whoa wait a minute...... never did she call out bangkok... she actually was saying they knew the rules if you re-read her post. she never talked bad about them. She is an amazing moderator... a fair one too. and you are RIGHT we do have a "horse" in the race. and WE followed all the rules. So it is very dissapointing when in the international level 6 they skip a placement just because there is a tie but did NOT do that in the small limited division. The small limited division had a 3 way tie for 7th place but ALL 10 places were given out...not any place was skipped due to the tie. So in my opinion they should of never skipped a placement in the international 6 either. RULES r RULES i dont care who said it was okay they had 15 boys. If it were a USA team that would of never happened.

 

[ROCKnROLLS]

We do not KNOW they knew they were doing something wrong. Coaches slip up all of the time when it comes to rules, especially level 6. Yes they signed a packet but like someone mentioned earlier, their could be language barriers, translation issues and when they are competing at both ICU and USASF, it could have been confusion and a honest mistake. Don't be so quick to judge the situation, God knows we've all messed up a time or two. If you were competing and won first, and then stripped of your title after it was over due to a rule violation you misunderstood , or honestly didn't know about, you would be extremely upset that it wasn't caught prior to awards or at least warned . I'm not thinking about the coach, I'm thinking about the kids who probably had NO clue they were in the wrong and were just thrilled to be there.

I'm sure that the kids that finished lower than 1st were also upset! especially when they found out that 1st place didn't follow the rules!

 

[Jmorries]

I don't think they should lose their title because it was very obvious they were the best. USASF and the ICU need to fix this for next year so it won't happen again. Clearly if more than 1 international team did that then there was communication error. GT won too, so everyone should be happy. Plus in this economy I'm sure all the money they paid to come to worlds.....they deserve it. Just fix it so international teams won't be confused next time. Anyways, Team Thailand<3

 

[socratesofcheer]

I don't think they should lose their title because it was very obvious they were the best. USASF and the ICU need to fix this for next year so it won't happen again. Clearly if more than 1 international team did that then there was communication error. GT won too, so everyone should be happy. Plus in this economy I'm sure all the money they paid to come to worlds.....they deserve it. Just fix it so international teams won't be confused next time. Anyways, Team Thailand<3

I've said it before and I'll say it again: as I walk through the ocean of your intelligence, my feet do not get wet.

 

[ROCKnROLLS]

Umm I'm Asian (living in America for almost my entire life) and take EXTREME personal offense to that racial slur. How arrogant of you @socratesofcheer ...you should feel like a total a*shole for that distasteful joke. Way to offend an entire race, some of which are in the industry IN THIS COUNTRY. Wake up, it's 2011. Somewhere an Amurrican village is missing a person... "The Asian countries" do their counting just fine... which is why they're surpassing us in higher education every year. This is about rules in cheerleading. Do NOT make this about race. I will gladly slaughter any argument you have.

actually it's not a racial slur. its a stereotype, much like "all Asians are good in math" or "All Irish are drunkards" are stereotypes. basically nonsense.

 

[cheerinfo]

I don't think they should lose their title because it was very obvious they were the best. USASF and the ICU need to fix this for next year so it won't happen again. Clearly if more than 1 international team did that then there was communication error. GT won too, so everyone should be happy. Plus in this economy I'm sure all the money they paid to come to worlds.....they deserve it. Just fix it so international teams won't be confused next time. Anyways, Team Thailand<3

They were OBVIOUSLY the BEST? The ONLY portion of the scoresheet that I can see that they were the best in was pyramids...and they performed those with 2 illegal elements and 3 more boys than the other teams. Other than that, I am not sure where they were the best. Tumbling? Stunts? Dance? Jumps? Nope. This occurrence will taint this event and cheerleading. USASF MUST come forward and explain the overlooked illegal elements. The coach of Bangkok speaks perfect English, so language barrier theory goes out the window. This team is like ANY OTHER international team and should be forced to play by the same rules. 20 pages in this thread and people are actually still DEFENDING this title and the actions taken prior to winning it?? I will state one more time...I loved watching Bangkok. They are extremely talented and I am sure worked just as hard as the other teams. But they cheated. I don't care if it is knowingly or not...it was illegal. How would YOU feel if your team was in Small Limited Coed and they performed 3 illegal elements in their routine and had 8 boys? Would you complain? Or would you just say, oh well, as long as they fix it next year??? SERIOUSLY?? Uh uh...no way. This is an issue that MUST be addressed and remedied for future events...not even just for Worlds, just ALL events.

 

[Jmorries]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: as I walk through the ocean of your intelligence, my feet do not get wet.

is that supposed to hurt my feelings?

 

[ROCKnROLLS]

They were OBVIOUSLY the BEST? The ONLY portion of the scoresheet that I can see that they were the best in was pyramids...and they performed those with 2 illegal elements and 3 more boys than the other teams. Other than that, I am not sure where they were the best. Tumbling? Stunts? Dance? Jumps? Nope. This occurrence will taint this event and cheerleading. USASF MUST come forward and explain the overlooked illegal elements. The coach of Bangkok speaks perfect English, so language barrier theory goes out the window. This team is like ANY OTHER international team and should be forced to play by the same rules. 20 pages in this thread and people are actually still DEFENDING this title and the actions taken prior to winning it?? I will state one more time...I loved watching Bangkok. They are extremely talented and I am sure worked just as hard as the other teams. But they cheated. I don't care if it is knowingly or not...it was illegal. How would YOU feel if your team was in Small Limited Coed and they performed 3 illegal elements in their routine and had 8 boys? Would you complain? Or would you just say, oh well, as long as they fix it next year??? SERIOUSLY?? Uh uh...no way. This is an issue that MUST be addressed and remedied for future events...not even just for Worlds, just ALL events.

You have said it best!

 

[Jmorries]

They were OBVIOUSLY the BEST? The ONLY portion of the scoresheet that I can see that they were the best in was pyramids...and they performed those with 2 illegal elements and 3 more boys than the other teams. Other than that, I am not sure where they were the best. Tumbling? Stunts? Dance? Jumps? Nope. This occurrence will taint this event and cheerleading. USASF MUST come forward and explain the overlooked illegal elements. The coach of Bangkok speaks perfect English, so language barrier theory goes out the window. This team is like ANY OTHER international team and should be forced to play by the same rules. 20 pages in this thread and people are actually still DEFENDING this title and the actions taken prior to winning it?? I will state one more time...I loved watching Bangkok. They are extremely talented and I am sure worked just as hard as the other teams. But they cheated. I don't care if it is knowingly or not...it was illegal. How would YOU feel if your team was in Small Limited Coed and they performed 3 illegal elements in their routine and had 8 boys? Would you complain? Or would you just say, oh well, as long as they fix it next year??? SERIOUSLY?? Uh uh...no way. This is an issue that MUST be addressed and remedied for future events...not even just for Worlds, just ALL events.

I feel like because theyre international and its a new sport worldwide and theyre trying to make it more popular nothing will happen. plus hello its the usasf.......if something does happen it'll be in like december or next year.

 

[specialtpass]

If the USASF would have done their job, you and I would be discussing how Bangkok was great. BUT, had illegal elements so they didn't make finals/win.

Very well said. It's really that simple isn't it? We all would have sorted out the consequences imposed on Bangkok very quickly as they were in violation of the rules.

The USASF appears to have wanted two things and did WHATEVER they needed to do to make it happen.

1. Bangkok to perform and entertain the crowd. That is really what they did with so many violations in the routine.
2. Bangkok to take home a globe.

Made up deductions arbitrarily given in place of disqualification and ignoring safety deductions were an insult to every rule abiding team attending. Just another glaring example of why this will never become a sport. IMO

 

[socratesofcheer]

is that supposed to hurt my feelings?

Oh no! Absolutely not. It is supposed to let you know that there was not one intelligent thought in your post.