All-Star Unethical Programs

[BamaCheerGuy]

@mrsgarrett First of all just take a deep breath and relax. It happens, mistakes, miscommunication, whatever. I am sure that the whole Jamfest thing was just a big misunderstanding. You are doing a good thing and it is awesome that you want to get involved and help this sport. As for rules and guidelines, if it is a USASF sanctioned event, then you have to follow their rules. Jamfest is a member, so you will know in the future. You do NOT have to be a credentialed to coach a Level 1-4 team. You do not have to be credentialed to open a gym. I would strongly suggest it though. Just for the knowledge alone. It will help you and protect you. The only place to fine that information is on the USASF.NET site. First thing is go there and look under the USASF staff and find your rep. If you are not certain which area you are in contact Les Stella or Amy Clark. They can be reached by email. They will put you in contact with the appropriate rep. Again, mistakes happen and they will always happen. Now remember that most competitions are under the USASF guidelines, you can actually look under the competitions tab and it will show you who is a member. As for IEPs. All IEPs are not non USASF members. There are many out there that are recognized and are represented on the board by Darren Demoss. The thing with members and non member EPs is that you follow the same rules. The USASF is our governing body and anything they say cannot be over ridden by a member EP. Now the EP can make rules that are stricter but not more lenient. Again, I am sure it was just a miscommunication and nobody meant anything by it. You don't owe anyone an apology. If you are looking for instructions or rules about this sport always go to the USASF. That is the only platform that is officially designated to give you rules. Once you are a member then you can actually become a part of the USASF area group (your area) on Facebook. They offer answers to all questions about rules. Again, only a USASF site can give you a rule that you can guarantee is the right answer. If you are interested in how to run a gym or coaching techniques, there are sections of this site that are for coaches only and they are filled with great ideas and wonderful gym owners and coaches. King does a fabulous job of running this site and it is separated into forums for your enjoyment and use. There is also a facebook page for ASGA coaches and owners. It is a closed group and gives you insight to run a gym, spot tumbling etc. Again, only the USASF can give you the rules and answers that you can trust and use. Some people have great intentions but misunderstandings. This forum is a great way to get a feel for what the parents and basically your customers think. It gives you an insight to what they want and expect. Just remember that no coach, parent, choreographer, judge or EP can give you an answer that you can take to the bank. Only a USASF rep can do that. So when in doubt ask them. Thank you for helping this sport, nobody knows everything except maybe Les Stella, he is the brains behind all of this and is always there to help. Just find out who your rep is and they will help you go from there. Congrats on your start in all star and I hope you do wonderful!

 

[BamaCheerGuy]

IEP does not mean they are not USASF sanctioned. There's a very significant number of IEP companies that are USASF members, follow USASF rules, and give out Worlds bids.

So many people get this confused. A "true" IEP? There are USASF Sanctioned IEPs and Non sanctioned IEPs. I was asked the other day if a certain event was a true IEP. I was confused.

 

[AngelsMum24]

OK I could see if the usasf rules were like the Affordable Care Act and we were asking you to read a 1600 page document... but COME ON. How does someone open a gym and expect to get by on reading a message board as their main source of information? The entire usasf rules document (both of them together) is less than 50 pages long.

I found every rule that applies to this thread significantly faster than it would take to locate a Jamfest official and ask. Less than 5 minutes.

I'd be willing to bet that Jamfest officials would say that they never said this was OK - or at least that their certainly didn't say that you don't even need to ask. I'm going with one of 3 things:
1. They didn't understand that it was a different program and not just a different team
2. This story didn't happen this way
3. The person you asked wasn't actually an official - more likely a volunteer that didn't have a clue what their were talking about

Regardless, it's your job, paid or not, to know the rules long before you ever take a team out of your gym and onto the mat.

Sorry if you think I'm being harsh but this is crazy that you'd take a team to a competition without even reading the rules for the main governing body of your sport. If I was a parent in this program I'd be heated about this.

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There are so many gray areas in the USASF rules that the only true "experts" are those that make them. Secondly, one can read and memorize the rules, but the interpretation is definitely not the same across the board (or EPs). So there is a lot that is learned on the go and from experience only.

 

[mrsgarrett]

@mrsgarrett First of all just take a deep breath and relax. It happens, mistakes, miscommunication, whatever. I am sure that the whole Jamfest thing was just a big misunderstanding. You are doing a good thing and it is awesome that you want to get involved and help this sport. As for rules and guidelines, if it is a USASF sanctioned event, then you have to follow their rules. Jamfest is a member, so you will know in the future. You do NOT have to be a credentialed to coach a Level 1-4 team. You do not have to be credentialed to open a gym. I would strongly suggest it though. Just for the knowledge alone. It will help you and protect you. The only place to fine that information is on the USASF.NET site. First thing is go there and look under the USASF staff and find your rep. If you are not certain which area you are in contact Les Stella or Amy Clark. They can be reached by email. They will put you in contact with the appropriate rep. Again, mistakes happen and they will always happen. Now remember that most competitions are under the USASF guidelines, you can actually look under the competitions tab and it will show you who is a member. As for IEPs. All IEPs are not non USASF members. There are many out there that are recognized and are represented on the board by Darren Demoss. The thing with members and non member EPs is that you follow the same rules. The USASF is our governing body and anything they say cannot be over ridden by a member EP. Now the EP can make rules that are stricter but not more lenient. Again, I am sure it was just a miscommunication and nobody meant anything by it. You don't owe anyone an apology. If you are looking for instructions or rules about this sport always go to the USASF. That is the only platform that is officially designated to give you rules. Once you are a member then you can actually become a part of the USASF area group (your area) on Facebook. They offer answers to all questions about rules. Again, only a USASF site can give you a rule that you can guarantee is the right answer. If you are interested in how to run a gym or coaching techniques, there are sections of this site that are for coaches only and they are filled with great ideas and wonderful gym owners and coaches. King does a fabulous job of running this site and it is separated into forums for your enjoyment and use. There is also a facebook page for ASGA coaches and owners. It is a closed group and gives you insight to run a gym, spot tumbling etc. Again, only the USASF can give you the rules and answers that you can trust and use. Some people have great intentions but misunderstandings. This forum is a great way to get a feel for what the parents and basically your customers think. It gives you an insight to what they want and expect. Just remember that no coach, parent, choreographer, judge or EP can give you an answer that you can take to the bank. Only a USASF rep can do that. So when in doubt ask them. Thank you for helping this sport, nobody knows everything except maybe Les Stella, he is the brains behind all of this and is always there to help. Just find out who your rep is and they will help you go from there. Congrats on your start in all star and I hope you do wonderful!

Thank you so much.

 

[Just-a-Mom]

There are so many gray areas in the USASF rules that the only true "experts" are those that make them. Secondly, one can read and memorize the rules, but the interpretation is definitely not the same across the board (or EPs). So there is a lot that is learned on the go and from experience only.

Maybe in level rules and skills type rules. But I dont think there is any gray in crossover rules or "an athlete may not compete for more than one program at a single competition." That's pretty black and white to me.

Now what and when they actually enforce is pretty gray.

------------------------------------------
As for everything after my post... just Really?

(Not directed at you @AngelsMum24 )

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[AngelsMum24]

Maybe in level rules and skills type rules. But I dont think there is any gray in crossover rules or "an athlete may not compete for more than one program at a single competition." That's pretty black and white to me.

Now what and when they actually enforce is pretty gray.

------------------------------------------
As for everything after my post... just Really?

(Not directed at you @AngelsMum24 )

The Fierce Board App! || iPhone || Android

I agree, there are are areas that are black and white but there is a lot of gray (hence all the clarifications) in level rules, which is why I will be attending Regional meeting for the "interpretations" session alone! LOL

 

[cheermomto2]

Well I hope not too common.


Pretending to be a parent since 1993

Definitely hope not! The cheating didn't even help them win anyway! A lot of their girls came to our gym this season and we were able to go from having 5 teams to 7, so there was something positive that came out of the situation.

 

[Ally13]

Correct me if I'm wrong, hasn't the USASF fined gyms before who had permission from the EP to break USASF rules? I'm sortof expecting the same thing to happen in this instance.

The violation was absolutely clear even if jamfest said it was okay.

I mean, the Kia salesman can tell me I don't have to follow the speed limit because I don't know what it is on that test drive road but I don't think that excuse will fly with the cop that pulls me over.


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I believe CEA was fined for using an illegal amount of crossovers at Cheersport one year (2012?) even though officials said it was okay. I am not too sure about this though.. I remember there was a thread about it that went pretty downhill and since I'm not affiliated with Cheersport or CEA I don't know any details other than what I read about. But, I'm pretty sure the USASF can/has before.

 

[xtremeteal4life]

I believe CEA was fined for using an illegal amount of crossovers at Cheersport one year (2012?) even though officials said it was okay. I am not too sure about this though.. I remember there was a thread about it that went pretty downhill and since I'm not affiliated with Cheersport or CEA I don't know any details other than what I read about. But, I'm pretty sure the USASF can/has before.

Lol-yes.... lord the irony I venture into this thread and after reading the comment/post you quoted (and her other one about gyms being unethical) I was fully expecting a majority of the rest of the thread to be about that incident.

 

[Mamarazzi]

@xtremeteal4life it's not always about you.

And @mrsgarrett - you just handled this whole thing admirably. Well done, grasshopper.

 

[Ally13]

Lol-yes.... lord the irony I venture into this thread and after reading the comment/post you quoted (and her other one about gyms being unethical) I was fully expecting a majority of the rest of the thread to be about that incident.

Haha, it's what I first thought of after reading a few posts. I'm surprised I was the one who brought it up.

 

[Cheermom1969]

@xtremeteal4life it's not always about you.

And @mrsgarrett - you just handled this whole thing admirably. Well done, grasshopper.

H*ll, I just love her username - mrsgarrett! Facts of Life forever, baby! Loved that show.

 

[xtremeteal4life]

@xtremeteal4life it's not always about you.

And @mrsgarrett - you just handled this whole thing admirably. Well done, grasshopper.

LOL I see what you did there

 

[cupieqt]

H*ll, I just love her username - mrsgarrett! Facts of Life forever, baby! Loved that show.

"You take the good, you take the bad, you take them both and there you have the facts of life!"

So glad I wasn't the only one who thought of that show too!

 

[Cheermom1969]

"You take the good, you take the bad, you take them both and there you have the facts of life!"

So glad I wasn't the only one who thought of that show too!

I always wanted to be Blair but I was actually more like Jo.... lol