All-Star Usasf 2011-2013 Rule Proposals!

[Ashley]

+1

"there are only so many not-really-a-cartwheel-cartwheels" shows lack of creativity and instruction on the coaches' part, not the athletes. level one is for developing fundamentals at any age, so what are we trying to say by eliminating it? there need to be more senior 1 teams instead of bootleg 2s and 3s... meaning coaches need to start pushing form & technique, teach sound back walkovers before even progressing to the next skill. i've seen better motions, dance, and jumps on a level one team than a lot of these teams trying to pass off as level 5s, yet people are suggesting to eliminate it because it's "boring"? kind of contradictory to legitimizing this as a sport...

Evergreen's comment about judging "not-really-a-cartwheel-cartwheels" had to do with shortening lower level routines - not removing level 1.

 

[King]

I can watch level 1 cheerleading all day long as long as it is good. double fulls dont impress me. pretty back walkovers impress me. pretty double fulls though also impress me.

all cheerleading is fun to watch as long as its good. too bad most of it isnt

 

[Eyes On The Prize]

I think people need to stop thinking of the exceptions to these rules. Of course there are going to be 14-15 years olds with no tumbling, and of course there are going to be 8 year olds with double fulls. You can't cater to the needs of everyone in cheerleading or even in life. You can try, but you will fail at making it work. It will be chaos. In my opinion, getting rid of the Mini 3, Youth 5 and Unlimited Co-Ed teams seem like a good idea. They are dying divisions. It may not be good for the people on them, but it's better for the industry. All the kids on the teams will be placed on other teams, it's not like they will go team-less. For example, move the youth level 5 kids to youth 4 or junior 5. Most gyms don't even have enough kids to produce youth level 5 or even mini level 3 teams. It's really not even worth it to have these divisions anymore. I know I'm gonna get chewed up for this...

 

[Mclovin]

I really don't care if they get rid of mini 3, youth 5 or unlimited 5, just don't restrict what they can do at those levels if you keep them. If a 10 year old can do a standing double, let them. If they can double down out of their stunts, let them. Don't punish the talented just because they are young. And don't punish teams and coaches that CAN teach correctly just because there are those out there that can't/don't.

 

[kobegirl]

I really don't care if they get rid of mini 3, youth 5 or unlimited 5, just don't restrict what they can do at those levels if you keep them. If a 10 year old can do a standing double, let them. If they can double down out of their stunts, let them. Don't punish the talented just because they are young. And don't punish teams and coaches that CAN teach correctly just because there are those out there that can't/don't.

I can kinda agree. Mini level 3 rarely if ever has true level 3 stunting skills and it would be much, much safer for those flyers to be held by larger girls on youth level 3. You also tend to see some pretty crazy looking tucks on there, just so the skill is on the floor??? It would be much better for the mini division to hold off or just go ahead and put those 'incredible' tuckers and flyers on a youth team, and let the rest of that mini team have another year to develop better. If they can barely or even not technically get that stunt over their head and then only hold it for two counts and do the rest of the body positions as level 2 stunts, what's the point? I mean, if you had a five year old that was just freakin incredible at flying and tumbling, you wouldn't want to keep her down in tinys...you would go ahead and move her up, right?

I LOVE youth 5, but it is such a small part of the competitions - and usually without any competition until February. And I hate to say it, but, the divisions in Coed....Why not just limited (under 6) and unlimited?

 

[Mclovin]

I have seen many mini 3 athletes look scary out on that floor, but I have seen just as many scary junior 5's, seniors 5's and so on. You get my point. For the purpose competition, I can agree that these divisions are too small. So for that reason I can understand getting rid of them. But again, if they decide to keep them, just don't restrict them.

 

[Nothanks]

I love watching little girls throw fulls and doubles, and bust out hard stunts, but there comes a point where you have to ask yourself, okay, well, they've got the hardest skills they need in cheerleading, and they're 8 years old. what else is there for them to do? not only does it kill their bodies, but after a while, they probably get bored throwing their super-hard specialty passes for the next 11 years. they burn out, and as amazing as it is to see little kids with so much talent, i'd rather see them on a junior or senior (even open) team with that amazing pass to compliment an amazing routine overall where they're ALL throwing skills and routines just as difficult.

 

[Mclovin]

I think Rays Teal, WC Twinkles and CEA Youth Elite have MORE than proved that youth level 5 teams can tear up the floor. 2010 is not a time where youth 5 teams have 3 fulls and a bunch of janky layouts and tucks. These kids are the deal. And they are more than proving that they can safely and correctly execute level 5 stunts and dismounts. My daughter's youth level 4 team is doing harder stunts than my older daughter's J5 team and executing them better.

 

[Num1Stunta]

Personally, I think if we're going to drop large down to 32 then small should drop to 16. I could field smaller, stronger teams that way at my small gym.

Also, instead of eliminating Y5, why not put the senior open restrictions on them? That's not a huge division, but a great one nonetheless!

I like the toss changes, and the L3 tumbling modification. I do NOT like the ideea of standing multiples in 2 or standing multiples to tuck in 3. But, I think tt bhs in l2 is ok

 

[kristenthegreat]

I think people need to stop thinking of the exceptions to these rules. Of course there are going to be 14-15 years olds with no tumbling, and of course there are going to be 8 year olds with double fulls. You can't cater to the needs of everyone in cheerleading or even in life. You can try, but you will fail at making it work. It will be chaos. In my opinion, getting rid of the Mini 3, Youth 5 and Unlimited Co-Ed teams seem like a good idea. They are dying divisions. It may not be good for the people on them, but it's better for the industry. All the kids on the teams will be placed on other teams, it's not like they will go team-less. For example, move the youth level 5 kids to youth 4 or junior 5. Most gyms don't even have enough kids to produce youth level 5 or even mini level 3 teams. It's really not even worth it to have these divisions anymore. I know I'm gonna get chewed up for this...

That's where a lot of these 'limiting' rules are coming from. I don't know if any of you actually watched the regional meetings where they were discussing these options, but many of these ideas were brought up with lots of backing and reasoning. And it wasn't just small gym owners 'who can't field these teams and shouldn't.' Big gym owners, small gym owners, MANY of these ideas received applause and were hotly debated. Why? Because we're talking about the benefit of the INDUSTRY, not a select few teams/gyms. We're always complaining about 'not enough competition'..but with less divisions, won't you have more teams per division? Those athletes have to go somewhere, and it probably won't be away from cheering. Who knows, maybe it will force gym owners to slow down the progression bit since parents can't argue about mini 3 or youth 5. Unless they're trying to push their kid up ages..but that's another post.

*Sidenote: I am for eliminating mini 3, eliminating/limiting youth 5, and eliminating unlim coed. Just axe that last sucker already and be done with it..*

 

[cheermommaRN]

I have seen many mini 3 athletes look scary out on that floor, but I have seen just as many scary junior 5's, seniors 5's and so on. You get my point. For the purpose competition, I can agree that these divisions are too small. So for that reason I can understand getting rid of them. But again, if they decide to keep them, just don't restrict them.

We could make a whole other thread about this....
From a medical standpoint my issue with mini 3 is that some of these kids physically are not ready for that kind of tumbling. They may be able to do the skill but they are not fully developed yet to be able to stay tight during it. Technically some of those mini kids shouldn't even be inverting themselves because it causes to much strain on their not developed neck muscles. I've seen very few kids that age that have really good tumbling, it is usually bent armed BHS and knee-apart tucks. I cringe every time I see these little kids on youtube (Look my dd is 18 months old and can do a BHS!!!).

 

[Mclovin]

We could make a whole other thread about this....
From a medical standpoint my issue with mini 3 is that some of these kids physically are not ready for that kind of tumbling. They may be able to do the skill but they are not fully developed yet to be able to stay tight during it. Technically some of those mini kids shouldn't even be inverting themselves because it causes to much strain on their not developed neck muscles. I've seen very few kids that age that have really good tumbling, it is usually bent armed BHS and knee-apart tucks. I cringe every time I see these little kids on youtube (Look my dd is 18 months old and can do a BHS!!!).

Haha! I respect your medical opinion but tell that to my CP who had a double full when she was 8. Or my other CP who was on a mini 2 team and half the kids on that team were working tucks and layouts and now are youth 4. None of those kids had any problems being tight in their tumbling. Do I think they are a minority, yes, but there are plenty of kids 8 and under that are very capable physically and mentally to throw level 3 skills. And if they eliminate mini 3, you'll just see those same kids throwing those same skills on a youth or junior 3 team. So eliminating the division will not stop what it is you are concerned with. Eliminating it will create more teams in mini 2 or youth 3 though which I am definitely in favor of.

 

[cheerislove8]

At Cheersport last year, arguably the BIGGEST competition for levels 1-4, there was 6 Senior Level 1 Teams. SIX! That's small and large combined, too! Any legitimate coach that has the qualifications to run a decent all-star gym can teach 10 girls to backhandspring in 6 months. No average first year gym (especially if it's being run by a coach like your describing) is gonna be THAT successful outside of locals, with a team of 15+girls, not one of who has ever cheered before. No matter what division you put them in. And, still, the probability of them having competition at a local level is almost nonexistent. I don't even really know why we're talking about it though since a) it's not even a rule up for discussion and b) realistically, the likelihood of them ever getting rid of it is slim.

There were 13 Senior 1 teams at NCA last season, which is also one of the biggest nationals. And also as somebody mentioned, learning to tumble once you are too old for a junior team is a lot more difficult than being 7. Those little kids just don't have much fear and just throw! Haha older people get worked up about something "that" simple. Ya know? I'm in favor of leaving the Senior 1 division as is.

 

[cheermommaRN]

Haha! I respect your medical opinion but tell that to my CP who had a double full when she was 8. Or my other CP who was on a mini 2 team and half the kids on that team were working tucks and layouts and now are youth 4. None of those kids had any problems being tight in their tumbling. Do I think they are a minority, yes, but there are plenty of kids 8 and under that are very capable physically and mentally to throw level 3 skills. And if they eliminate mini 3, you'll just see those same kids throwing those same skills on a youth or junior 3 team. So eliminating the division will not stop what it is you are concerned with. Eliminating it will create more teams in mini 2 or youth 3 though which I am definitely in favor of.

There is always exceptions but for every amazing kid I've seen twice as many dangerous ones. I should clarify that I am talking more from experience with competitive gymnastics then cheer. I know getting rid of the division won't stop the kids from doing the skills but it will stop gyms from having a team of 5 amazing kids and 10 almost killing themselves. Put the talented ones on a youth and then let the others work on their skills on a level 2.
Honestly I could do without Mini 2 and 3. If a kid is determined and focused enough to get their BHS at 6 they are focused enough to be on a Youth 2. Keep Tiny/Mini 1. JMO.

 

[hiyoe6]

I know this is a message board, and a lot of the comments are great ideas but it seems that the things being voted for are already up and they won't be changed. So while getting rid of Senior 1 might be a nice thought to some, its not currently in the cards for this voting round. Senior 1 will be here until at least 2013.