All-Star Usasf 2011-2013 Rule Proposals!

[Deleted member 15]

Keep in mind, there is a mini 4 division, though I don't think anyone's competed in it in a while. Axe that first, I'd say.

There is not a Mini 4 on the USASF Age Grid. http://usasf.net.ismmedia.com/ISM2//Member Documents /09_10_Age_Grid.pdf

 

[Num1Stunta]

There is not a Mini 4 on the USASF Age Grid. http://usasf.net.ismmedia.com/ISM2//Member Documents /09_10_Age_Grid.pdf

Am I on crack? I swear I remember seeing Mini 4 on an entry form or a result somewhere last year?

 

[Deleted member 15]

Am I on crack? I swear I remember seeing Mini 4 on an entry form or a result somewhere last year?

I wouldn't be surprised if you saw it. I've seen several divisions listed on entry forms and results that I never heard of.

 

[KTNSinspiredbyFIERCECATS]

That's really mean. It's a lot harder to learn to tumble once you're already in high school. Believe me - I cheered in high school in the days where you were a pretty decent team if you had 6 backhandsprings. I cheered from the time I was 10 in Pop Warner, before All-Stars were really big and we definitely weren't learning tumbling during any of that. By the time you're 14 or 15 it's extremely hard to learn to tumble. All-Stars should be inclusive, not exclusive.

Its alot harder to learn a forward roll, cartwheel, back walk over, and a theighstand when you're 14+? Sorry, but I'm 100% confident that I could teach a group of 14+ girls to do those things 4 times faster then I could teach a group of 5 year olds! I stand strong with my opinion GET RID OF SENIOR LEVEL 1. Its RIDICULIS if a 14+ girl that "really wants to cheer" can't learn those skills in a month! (2 days a week 2 hour practices)

 

[KTNSinspiredbyFIERCECATS]

Refer back to the post about gym owners and coaches needing to make a living by having athletes in their program. It does not make business sense to chunk people out of their gyms because they are slow at achieving skills.

That's what tumbling classes are for... FILL THEM it pays your rent

 

[MakeYourMark]

Its alot harder to learn a forward roll, cartwheel, back walk over, and a theighstand when you're 14+? Sorry, but I'm 100% confident that I could teach a group of 14+ girls to do those things 4 times faster then I could teach a group of 5 year olds! I stand strong with my opinion GET RID OF SENIOR LEVEL 1. Its RIDICULIS if a 14+ girl that "really wants to cheer" can't learn those skills in a month! (2 days a week 2 hour practices)

so u expect a 14+ girl to learn a bhs in a month? bhs= lvl 2 requirement.
No- you are not going to get like 20 girls to do that in a month, that's truly unreasonable. If you can do that, well u better have the best damn all-star program in the country if u can get athletes to master new skills that quickly.
and new thighstand and suck, sure. but tumbling is a different story. Girl may not have the physical, or mental capability. Your mind set is lacking empathy.

 

[PghxCheer2]

lacking empathy? Perhaps I lack it because I'm driven to succeed and excel no matter what it takes. I don't know about where you guys are from, but around here real sports have real requirements when it comes to making a "travel" team. Whether it be soccer, volleyball, softball, baseball, lacrosse, or field hockey, EVERY single "travel" team has cuts. If you don't meet the skill requirement, you don't make the team. It's as simple as that. Nobody is excluding them from taking a tumbling and stunting class at the gym. Just like nobody is preventing me from taking a volleyball class to learn to play a sport I've never played before since I so desperately need to do it (relating back to everyone's wonderful examples). At 14+ years old, you should be able to take critique and understand what set skills are. And more importantly, you should understand why you don't meet them. Like the saying goes, you can always teach an old dog new tricks. If they want it as bad as you guys make it out to be, they'll learn it. Trust me on that one. And if they don't? Well maybe that's the start of the life lesson that sometimes, no matter what people tell you, your best will just never be good enough. It's harsh, but it's the truth. Every other sport let's their kids learn it, why can't we?

 

[F!ERCE]

lacking empathy? Perhaps I lack it because I'm driven to succeed and excel no matter what it takes. I don't know about where you guys are from, but around here real sports have real requirements when it comes to making a "travel" team. Whether it be soccer, volleyball, softball, baseball, lacrosse, or field hockey, EVERY single "travel" team has cuts. If you don't meet the skill requirement, you don't make the team. It's as simple as that. Nobody is excluding them from taking a tumbling and stunting class at the gym. Just like nobody is preventing me from taking a volleyball class to learn to play a sport I've never played before since I so desperately need to do it (relating back to everyone's wonderful examples). At 14+ years old, you should be able to take critique and understand what set skills are. And more importantly, you should understand why you don't meet them. Like the saying goes, you can always teach an old dog new tricks. If they want it as bad as you guys make it out to be, they'll learn it. Trust me on that one. And if they don't? Well maybe that's the start of the life lesson that sometimes, no matter what people tell you, your best will just never be good enough. It's harsh, but it's the truth. Every other sport let's their kids learn it, why can't we?

Money, money, money. Gyms aren't gonna start turning away kids who will pay tuition, class fees and booster fees. If you can change the industry from being so money-driven, that will change EVERYTHING. But until then, you will have beginners. Every sport has beginners...they're just not on the higher level teams. We're no different.

Lower level teams provide excellent training for the future. A tumbling class once or twice a week doesn't provide the same learning environment a level 1 team would. If you eliminate training, how do you ever create higher level athletes?

 

[meesh3369]

Money, money, money. Gyms aren't gonna start turning away kids who will pay tuition, class fees and booster fees. If you can change the industry from being so money-driven, that will change EVERYTHING. But until then, you will have beginners. Every sport has beginners...they're just not on the higher level teams. We're no different.

Lower level teams provide excellent training for the future. A tumbling class once or twice a week doesn't provide the same learning environment a level 1 team would. If you eliminate training, how do you ever create higher level athletes?

You have sumed up this topic of level 1 perfect n to the point there should be no more said it's needed weather you think it's pointless for many reasons mainly "perfection before progression" the golden rule of cheerleading that is often over looked in cheerleading!

 

[newcheerdad]

Kids should be able to participate on teams where they're matched with kids of similar age and skill level, and compete against teams that are of similar age and skill level. It doesn't matter if they're six or sixteen.

 

[IloveSeniorElite]

lacking empathy? Perhaps I lack it because I'm driven to succeed and excel no matter what it takes. I don't know about where you guys are from, but around here real sports have real requirements when it comes to making a "travel" team. Whether it be soccer, volleyball, softball, baseball, lacrosse, or field hockey, EVERY single "travel" team has cuts. If you don't meet the skill requirement, you don't make the team. It's as simple as that. Nobody is excluding them from taking a tumbling and stunting class at the gym. Just like nobody is preventing me from taking a volleyball class to learn to play a sport I've never played before since I so desperately need to do it (relating back to everyone's wonderful examples). At 14+ years old, you should be able to take critique and understand what set skills are. And more importantly, you should understand why you don't meet them. Like the saying goes, you can always teach an old dog new tricks. If they want it as bad as you guys make it out to be, they'll learn it. Trust me on that one. And if they don't? Well maybe that's the start of the life lesson that sometimes, no matter what people tell you, your best will just never be good enough. It's harsh, but it's the truth. Every other sport let's their kids learn it, why can't we?

It is absolutely unfair for you to assume that just because a cheerleader cannot obtain a new skill in a short amount of time (2 months), that they are not driven to succeed and excel no matter what. Even if a 14+ year old athlete can, as you said, take critique, understand the needed skills of level 2, and why they do not meet them, they may still struggle with getting to that point. Over my ten year cheerleading career, I have known many driven cheerleaders who excel in every aspect of their lives. Despite that, I've seen those girls still not be able to get a certain tumble skill after years of training, myself included. Sometimes you can be an otherwise well-rounded athlete, but still struggle in an area such as tumbling, especially for the older ones who did not achieve these skills at a young age. Should coaches decide that since an athlete has been working on, say their tuck for 2 years that they shouldn't still be allowed to cheer on level 2?

Unfortunately, life isn't always as easy as, if you want it bad enough, you'll learn it. If that were truly the case, the industry would have more high level athletes because I promise, there are hundreds to thousands of hard-working cheerleaders who want a skill so bad, but will never achieve it, no matter how hard they work. And while I agree that a valuable life lesson to be learned is that sometimes you give something your all, and it still isn't enough, I don't think the message of, "no matter what people tell you, your best will just never be good enough," is an appropriate way of describing that phenomena. That is not always the case when you're truly giving something 110%. I believe that cheerleading will certainly teach athletes lessons along the way, but I disagree that discouragement of never being good enough is going to make things much better. What makes cheerleading so wonderful is that so many people can participate in a sport they level. From pre-kindergarteners, to school-aged children, athletes with special needs, and even parent teams every now and then. No matter what the level, teams of all levels in the industry can cheer each other on. I would hope that a coach would not turn away a group of girls who love this sport like everyone else. After all, more often I've met lower level athletes with more passion and commitment for this sport than level 4's and 5's. I hope the USASF will continue to encourage athletes of all levels, not discourage them.

 

[PghxCheer2]

I'm not actually for getting rid of the athletes. I'll admit, my wording was a little harsh. My argument is to get rid of the division. You guys are still totally missing my point about the private tumbling class. Let me make something clear, what I consider "your best" isn't enrolling in one or two tumbling classes a week and then crying boo-who when you still don't have the backhandspring after a year. Your best comes from the other 5 or 6 days. Because unless you are building cardio and muscle mass those day, I really don't see the argument you guys are making. Tumbling is one section of the scoresheet. If they are managing at level 2 stunting, jumping, and dancing, you shouldn't be mad at the USASF. You should be mad at the coach. Just because a team has 12 backhandsprings doesn't make them the winning team. And just because you have 7 or 8 doesn't make you the losers. It's a team sport and sometimes you have to pick up where others lack. That might be tumbling, it might be stunting, it might be dance. Every team is different. Almost anyone can be athletic, but not all are blessed with it by nature. Sometimes you have to push yourself five times as hard than your neighbor to achieve the same results. What I stand by is that I do in fact have empathy for these athletes. I'll only have empathy for the ones that are actually giving it the 110% your talking about though, IloveSeniorElite. What planet do we live on that 110% is a) even physically possible or b) considered putting in 2 or 3 days of hard work per week? And I never said discouragment is a good idea? How is it discouraging to offer them tumbling and stunting classes, and an oppurtunity to even begin the sport at a traveling level at the age of 15. Like I said, In every other sport they save the traveling for the equivalent of a level 4 or 5 athlete. My initial argument (made earlier in the thread) was to open up spots on the level 2 team for these athletes. By being with the higher level athletes, they will be even more driven to get that backhandspring if you ask me. And please newcheerdad! "matched with kids of similar age"! REALLY!? That ship sailed LONG LONG LONG ago, my friend. I can't tell you how many 10 year olds I saw flying on senior teams of all levels last year. To end my novel, I'm also going to say that it isn't as easy as just taking Senior 1 off the grid, there will have to be rules added and subtracted if it was to work the way I envision it.

 

[kobegirl]

wow, I would think a gym, unless it is in a HUGE town, would have a BIG problem with finding enough for a senior 1 team. In ours we would just have to find their talents in another senior level team and do creative choreography, but ditch them, NO! If someone has HEART and can contribute, there IS a spot even if you don't meet the tumbling requirements......

 

[PghxCheer2]

haha I can't tell if your agreeing with me or not, but that's basically the original point I was trying to make. Don't ditch the athletes, ditch the division. If you want the kids bad enough, you'll find a place for them.

and Bowmaker, put them on a different team, maybe? The division isn't changing tomorrow. They would be aware of the change when they are forming teams.

 

[xtremeteal4life]

I'm not actually for getting rid of the athletes. I'll admit, my wording was a little harsh. My argument is to get rid of the division. You guys are still totally missing my point about the private tumbling class. Let me make something clear, what I consider "your best" isn't enrolling in one or two tumbling classes a week and then crying boo-who when you still don't have the backhandspring after a year. Your best comes from the other 5 or 6 days. Because unless you are building cardio and muscle mass those day, I really don't see the argument you guys are making. Tumbling is one section of the scoresheet. If they are managing at level 2 stunting, jumping, and dancing, you shouldn't be mad at the USASF. You should be mad at the coach. Just because a team has 12 backhandsprings doesn't make them the winning team. And just because you have 7 or 8 doesn't make you the losers. It's a team sport and sometimes you have to pick up where others lack. That might be tumbling, it might be stunting, it might be dance. Every team is different. Almost anyone can be athletic, but not all are blessed with it by nature. Sometimes you have to push yourself five times as hard than your neighbor to achieve the same results. What I stand by is that I do in fact have empathy for these athletes. I'll only have empathy for the ones that are actually giving it the 110% your talking about though, IloveSeniorElite. What planet do we live on that 110% is a) even physically possible or b) considered putting in 2 or 3 days of hard work per week? And I never said discouragment is a good idea? How is it discouraging to offer them tumbling and stunting classes, and an oppurtunity to even begin the sport at a traveling level at the age of 15. Like I said, In every other sport they save the traveling for the equivalent of a level 4 or 5 athlete. My initial argument (made earlier in the thread) was to open up spots on the level 2 team for these athletes. By being with the higher level athletes, they will be even more driven to get that backhandspring if you ask me. And please newcheerdad! "matched with kids of similar age"! REALLY!? That ship sailed LONG LONG LONG ago, my friend. I can't tell you how many 10 year olds I saw flying on senior teams of all levels last year. To end my novel, I'm also going to say that it isn't as easy as just taking Senior 1 off the grid, there will have to be rules added and subtracted if it was to work the way I envision it.

I'm sorry, but most of your points are the most asinine points I've heard. First of all, I'm assuming that the girls who are older and just starting out who ARE 100 percent committed and giving it their all ARE doing things the rest of the week to contribute to their skill building. Have you not seen some of those girls at the gym you attend practicing and/or utilizing the gym almost every day of the week...because I have (often more than the higher level one). Just because they utilize every tumbling class offered, privates 1-2 times a week, extra stunting classes, etc...doesn't mean that they will all still progress the same way. Your logic is also asinine bc as it's been pointed out, not everyone is capable of producing a higher level of skill in a shorter period of time. Take academics for example, some people are naturally gifted and learning, getting good grades, high SAT scores, etc...just comes naturally. However, there are plenty of people in which this is not the case. They do have to work harder to achieve the same type of academic success as their peers, despite their common age, same number of years in school, etc. So should we not encourage them to follow their dreams of attending a prestigious college one day bc they are not as naturally smart? Of course not...maybe it takes those people a couple of extra years after high school to catch up to the level required to attend that college, but there shouldn't be a rule saying "if you don't go right after high school you can never go". I realize that is not quite the same thing, but the point is similar.

These travel teams you speak of in other sports, are they privately funded? See cause here's another problem I have with your proposals...Regardless of what level team you are on in any Allstar cheerleading program, you still pay the same tuition and you still pay for competition fees (to COMPETE). Now if the system was set up where an older level 1 team never competed, then perhaps you'd have a more valid argument...but since it isn't set up that way, it simply isn't fair to those teams.

Perhaps the biggest problem I have with the things you said, is bc believe it or not, Allstar cheerleading is not all about winning titles. As I'm sure any coach would be willing to agree, it about learning teamwork, achieving goals, building confidence, building character, friendships and memories to last a lifetime. As a 14 year old girl who perhaps didn't make the cut on her HS squad (regardless if they're even good bc so often politics sadly dictate these teams), or maybe lacks the confidence to even try out or participate in any extra curricular activities, allstar cheerleading can give that to her. She would be welcomed w/open arms and probably leave the program w/something(s) she would have never been able to achieve/acquire had she not joined.....regardless if she was ever able to master a BHS.