What are the top 3 topics in cheerleading?

[CWcoach]

Just seems to be a lack of attention these days. I will go with a partner stunt competition instead of teams:
If we bring three partner stunt groups to a competition and they all do the same basket toss (say, a straight ride) you can only score so high in difficulty so they should all be the same, not blank .2, blank.4, blank.3. Execution scores are where our scores would vary, correct?

Also, we had a team in the international open 5 division. We only had this team because we were a first year team without the numbers to have an open team and a senior team. On our score sheets, we consistantly saw "your team would do well in a lower division. Need more fulls." A: there are no level 3 international open divisions, or 4.2's, etc. B:If I had more fulls, don't you think I would put them in?!! I am under the impression that judges still dont understand this level and why it was started in the first place.

It is the comments like these and the lack of attention to small things that really irritate me as a coach. I know that they are only so many quality judges to go around, but if usasf, jam brands, whoever is going to certify people to judge, they should take the time to make sure they all know the age divisions, scoring ranges, etc.

once at a two day competition the basket scores were based out of 6 points or something I cant remember, but the first day our difficulty score was a 5.5 and the next day a 4.5 when we were maxing out in baskets for level 3. Our junior team did less difficult baskets but recieved higher diffuculty points than we did on the day we got a 4.5. I was just very confused on how a difficulty score can change from saturday to sunday when your baskets stayed the exact same.

 

[CheerKatie08]

Universal Scoresheet & consistency of Day 1/ Day 2 judging panels

 

[chyeeaaa69]

I kinda like the card idea for athletes . when an athlete begins cheering at an all-star company should they not be forced to register with USASF and have their actual birthday and stuff in there and we all get like a card that we have with us at competitions ? IDK it's not main issue here but I think that's something that wouldn't be a bad idea . Obviously money and time would have to be spent on this but idk just seems like something that would make it a lot easier to tell ages .

 

[kittean]

3. Athlete Credentialing -- prevention of cheating.

just curious ... What do you consider "cheating" ??

 

[kittean]

I think some people are using the term Athlete Credentialing different than I do. I think of Athlete Credentialing as checking to see if they've made the proper progressions through tumbling, jumps, tosses, etc. resulting in being credentialed to Level 1, 2, 5, etc. I think of Athlete IDs when I think of ways to prevent cheating and limiting crossovers. Do I need to change my terminology?

When it comes to credentialing an athlete... how would you handle my child?? She is 15 ... She can fly at a solid 2 for all star... she flies a shakey 4 (at times) for high school.... she is on her sr open 5 now as a way to help her gain the skills to be a better flyer next year... BUT she has a tumble pass of a ft walk ft walk ro bhs series.... is it fair to class her only as one level? would you consider it cheating if she flies on both team? I mean as a tumbler she IS a level 2 no one can argue that.... if her team is willing to take the risk and put her on a level 5... would the team be penalized? would it be fair to tell her that she cant be on a team that challenges her to learn new stunts? Would it be fair to class her as a Level 5 because of her flying and tell her she cant be on a level 2 team?

Help .. how would you deal with her??

 

[Deleted member 15]

Credentialing is done by category (Stunts, Tosses, and Tumbling) so your daughter would be credentialed to different levels.

When it comes to credentialing an athlete... how would you handle my child?? She is 15 ... She can fly at a solid 2 for all star... she flies a shakey 4 (at times) for high school.... she is on her sr open 5 now as a way to help her gain the skills to be a better flyer next year... BUT she has a tumble pass of a ft walk ft walk ro bhs series.... is it fair to class her only as one level? would you consider it cheating if she flies on both team? I mean as a tumbler she IS a level 2 no one can argue that.... if her team is willing to take the risk and put her on a level 5... would the team be penalized? would it be fair to tell her that she cant be on a team that challenges her to learn new stunts? Would it be fair to class her as a Level 5 because of her flying and tell her she cant be on a level 2 team?

Help .. how would you deal with her??

 

[cheerislove8]

Absolutely agree with the Universal Scoresheet idea. I think it would make everyone's lives easier, and more fair as well.
Also, I agree you should be able to crossover to a team of the same level, but not higher or lower. Unless you are filling in for an injury or something, IMO that would be fine.

 

[ztaprincess]

Absolutely agree with the Universal Scoresheet idea. I think it would make everyone's lives easier, and more fair as well.
Also, I agree you should be able to crossover to a team of the same level, but not higher or lower. Unless you are filling in for an injury or something, IMO that would be fine.

on top of crossing over for injury i think you should be able to go between senior level 5 and international 6. i think it can help some people get the handle of college stunting if they can work with a level 6 team doing allstars.

 

[kittean]

Credentialing is done by category (Stunts, Tosses, and Tumbling) so your daughter would be credentialed to different levels.

But .. you would have her Credentialed at a flying level higher than her tumbling... What team would you consider her allowed to do?? would you force her onto a higher level team if she was flying and by doing so penalize the team in tumbling? (it is different when the team CHOOSES to put a level 2 tumbler on a level 5 team .. not be forced to because of her flying skill) or would you let her be on a lower team but ground her because she is a 4 or 5 credentialed flyer??

How can this be fair??? i am not trying to start a fight .. i am just trying to get my head around how credentialing would make things better and benefit the athletes.... if our gym had a 4.2 team .. she is perfect... but i cant walk into the small gym she loves and tell them that they have to make that team .. or tell her she cant stay with her cheer family because she would be credentialed in a class they dont offer... does that make sense??

 

[Deleted member 15]

There is no penalty for putting someone in your daughter's position on a Level 2-3 team and letting her fly or putting her on a Level 5 team even though she isn't credentialed to Level 5 in all areas. What to do depends on the gym you are at. I've always been at small gyms (3-4 teams) so it would be easy to figure out where to put her because I wouldn't have many options.

But .. you would have her Credentialed at a flying level higher than her tumbling... What team would you consider her allowed to do?? would you force her onto a higher level team if she was flying and by doing so penalize the team in tumbling? (it is different when the team CHOOSES to put a level 2 tumbler on a level 5 team .. not be forced to because of her flying skill) or would you let her be on a lower team but ground her because she is a 4 or 5 credentialed flyer??

How can this be fair??? i am not trying to start a fight .. i am just trying to get my head around how credentialing would make things better and benefit the athletes.... if our gym had a 4.2 team .. she is perfect... but i cant walk into the small gym she loves and tell them that they have to make that team .. or tell her she cant stay with her cheer family because she would be credentialed in a class they dont offer... does that make sense??

 

[kittean]

There is no penalty for putting someone in your daughter's position on a Level 2-3 team and letting her fly or putting her on a Level 5 team even though she isn't credentialed to Level 5 in all areas. What to do depends on the gym you are at. I've always been at small gyms (3-4 teams) so it would be easy to figure out where to put her because I wouldn't have many options.

Okay .. so .. if there is no penaly ... why worry about the credentials in the first place??

As you said... you would allow a level 5 flyer fly on a level 2 team... and let a level 2 tumbler fly on a level 5 ... what would be gained from the creditialling process???

 

[ACEDAD]

Okay .. so .. if there is no penaly ... why worry about the credentials in the first place??

As you said... you would allow a level 5 flyer fly on a level 2 team... and let a level 2 tumbler fly on a level 5 ... what would be gained from the creditialling process???

The credentialing process helps the athletes learn their progressions properly. It has nothing to do with whether there is a penalty or not.

 

[kittean]

The credentialing process helps the athletes learn their progressions properly. It has nothing to do with whether there is a penalty or not.

Still trying to get this... if you have good coaches .. there will be progression. If you have had "just throw it" not technical training you will have sloppy technique. That has been discussed on this board in other threads.

How are they going to even try to go about this? Your own gym cant do it. Your own gym is going to credential you at what they feel is right. If they FEEL they taught progression, and that they accept your tumbling they will credential you. If you were to move to another team, they may FEEL it was done incorrectly. (we have all seen teams with pretty tumbling and those that you hold your breath hoping that they have enough height to finish the rotation, or legs apart tucks, or bent knee fulls)

Where would you propose that it take place? Also ... what you estimate the cost of such a process (because nothing in all star cheer is free... lol)? Where would the database be kept? Would all of the competitions be adopting such a system, or just as with the present rules, there be many different interpretations... Also, how would it be used in competition? What would happen if a level 2 credentialed tumbler threw a full without having been credentialed at a level 5?

While it sounds like a good idea, without having a concrete use in competition, as explained, it would make a lot of people jump through a lot of hoops without providing a justifiable need. I could understand and be more accepting of the process if there was a proposed use in competition, to ensure that there is a way to enforce leveling, but then kids like mine get caught in no man's land because they would not level the same across the board.

Or am i really just missing the need for such a thing??

 

[CDRCoach17]

Clear cut defined rules when it comes to each division. Clear cut definitions of roster changes, alternate spots, and substitutions once you obtain a worlds bid....no loop holes at all. Universal score sheet

 

[Deleted member 15]

The advantage of athlete credentialing is have a third party (the USASF) help coaches explain to parents what is expected at each level. The completely agree about the good coaches following progressions with or without athlete credentialing.

Athlete membership in the USASF is $25 per year. Athlete credentialing is free to members and is done at the athlete's gym. The USASF keeps the membership database, I don't know if the athlete credentialing information is in it. Right now I'm not aware of any plans to restrict the level(s) and athlete can compete with based on their credentialing.

For good coaches, meaning those truly teaching progressions, the credentialing process is a paper trail in case you end up in court. For bad coaches, meaning those not teaching progressions, the credentialing process will hopefully get them to start using progressions.

Still trying to get this... if you have good coaches .. there will be progression. If you have had "just throw it" not technical training you will have sloppy technique. That has been discussed on this board in other threads.

How are they going to even try to go about this? Your own gym cant do it. Your own gym is going to credential you at what they feel is right. If they FEEL they taught progression, and that they accept your tumbling they will credential you. If you were to move to another team, they may FEEL it was done incorrectly. (we have all seen teams with pretty tumbling and those that you hold your breath hoping that they have enough height to finish the rotation, or legs apart tucks, or bent knee fulls)

Where would you propose that it take place? Also ... what you estimate the cost of such a process (because nothing in all star cheer is free... lol)? Where would the database be kept? Would all of the competitions be adopting such a system, or just as with the present rules, there be many different interpretations... Also, how would it be used in competition? What would happen if a level 2 credentialed tumbler threw a full without having been credentialed at a level 5?

While it sounds like a good idea, without having a concrete use in competition, as explained, it would make a lot of people jump through a lot of hoops without providing a justifiable need. I could understand and be more accepting of the process if there was a proposed use in competition, to ensure that there is a way to enforce leveling, but then kids like mine get caught in no man's land because they would not level the same across the board.

Or am i really just missing the need for such a thing??