All-Star Competitions Giving Out More Bids Than Advertised

[ashscott41]

What if the company owning these events was punished with a reduction of bids? ACA is a Varsity event, so since they gave an additional paid bid, one should have to be removed for the next Varsity bid event (which I believe would be NCA?). If this happens at an IEP event, or the last bid competition of the year for a given company, one paid bid would be removed from the following years event. If we really wanted to crack down on this, take away one paid and three at large. Reduces the number of teams at worlds, EPs would probably be more careful since they want to offer as many bids as possible, and gym owners/coaches would have to choose what events they feel are the most responsible and thorough with their bid giving process.

 

[newcheerdad]

ACA made a mistake and handed out a third paid bid to a team. Is that the correct response?

No. Once EP's are allowed to violate those rules with impunity, it will become easier for them to claim "mistakes" more often and give out extra bids. And that circumvents the whole reason for having strict limits on the number of paid bids an EP can give out.

And sure, I can see a competition with a reputation for sneaking in a "extra bid" becoming an attractive place for teams to go - all things being equal.

 

[mom4cheer]

WOW! A conspiracy theory? What happened to honest mistake? If you were there you would completely realize this was just that....an honest mistake. Please see Blue Cat Response in Aca Nationals Fortworth Tx thread. That explains it better than I could.

 

[cheeroracle]

It was obviously a mistake, but we are not in the Stone Age. Triple check your smart phone and look at The Fierce Wiki. There are plenty of resources which make this fool proof.

However-congrats to the bid receiving teams!

 

[King]

BlueCat as not to taint the other thread (because honestly congrats on the majors and your teams performing well this weekend) what is the appropriate response to all this?

do I care that an extra bid was handed out? no, not at all. both teams I coach had top teams in their divisions receive a paid bid so I personally benefitted.

do i think there is a ripple affect to this type of thing? yes. i think it drives the other side of the judges table (the EP's) to be less banded together and join together behind the USASF. which in turn sucks for the rest of us. its one of those complicated issues that at face value it seems hard to grasp the true ramifications of all.

 

[kristenthegreat]

WOW! A conspiracy theory? What happened to honest mistake? If you were there you would completely realize this was just that....an honest mistake. Please see Blue Cat Response in Aca Nationals Fortworth Tx thread. That explains it better than I could.

Even if it were a mistake, it's not the first time this mistake has happened. And it's an attractive mistake at that..who's to say that it couldn't turn into a loophole?

 

[King]

Even if it were a mistake, it's not the first time this mistake has happened. And it's an attractive mistake at that..who's to say that it couldn't turn into a loophole?

This mistake has been made three times now. If the mistake meant that particular competition could no longer hand out bids do you think there would be these mistakes?

 

[BlueCat]

Does it change your opinion to know that it was USASF's mistake that led to the whole mess? They gave out incorrect information to ACA which caused the errors. ACA followed the USASF's report and listed procedures exactly.

 

[kristenthegreat]

Does it change your opinion to know that it was USASF's mistake that led to the whole mess? They gave out incorrect information to ACA which caused the errors.

Not necessarily. While it was USASF's fault, it has brought to light something we haven't considered, and therefore can be prepared for BEFORE it becomes an issue. Can you imagine the drama unfolding if we had to deal with the rumors that companies were making mistakes to 'add' bids?

and kingston , I think it would be SO much better monitored, and I think there would be an insistence on mandatory coaches meetings to go over things like this prior to the competition. Because an EP wouldn't want to get screwed out of bids and would be EXTRA careful. Heck, we'd probably get more secured scoring KNOWING that an EP would check it. They wouldn't want to make a mistake and lose a bid..

 

[King]

Does it change your opinion to know that it was USASF's mistake that led to the whole mess? They gave out incorrect information to ACA which caused the errors.

I guess the question is, what is my opinion?

Do I think ACA should have handed out that third bid to protect themselves? Yes.

Do I think after all that all three teams deserve bids? Yes.

Do I think that that information makes it insanely worse for a few more years for the USASF? Yes.

Do I personally micro manage to make sure something like that wouldn't happen on my watch? Yes.

 

[BlueCat]

Here is another interesting question that doesnt have an easy answer. Coaches, would you turn down the bid if you are in a situation similar to CA? While we think there is an above-average chance for them to end up with a paid bid at one of the other bid events, there is obviously no guarantee that this would happen. Being a coed team, there are probably athletes that would then not be able to go to Worlds. They are not taking anything from any other team.

However, they theoretically would not have earned the bid that week if there weren't errors.

 

[King]

Here is another interesting question that doesnt have an easy answer. Coaches, would you turn down the bid if you are in a situation similar to CA? There is obviously no guarantee that they will get another paid bid. Being a coed team, there are probably athletes that would then not be able to go to Worlds. They are not taking anything from any other team.

However, they theoretically would not have earned the bid that week if there weren't errors.

Well I in no way shape or form think you should turn down the bid OR argue for it to be taken away. (I wouldn't). You would have however earned a bid, just not paid, yes?

I guess part of the question is also what is given to competitions? Are they 'official' or not official?

 

[King]

Here is the best parallel I can draw.

I have only recently really started to follow professional football. This year they automatically instant replay every scoring play and possibly every play in general where something on the field might cause human error to ensure the game is as objective as possible. I feel like (outside of penalties for defenseless receiver) the games played out are completely as even handed as humanly possible.

Are we doing everything reasonably possible to ensure the fairest possible results? You have mentioned many times about the scoring errors and always double check your scoresheets. Is this that different?

 

[BlueCat]

Here is the best parallel I can draw.

I have only recently really started to follow professional football. This year they automatically instant replay every scoring play and possibly every play in general where something on the field might cause human error to ensure the game is as objective as possible. I feel like (outside of penalties for defenseless receiver) the games played out are completely as even handed as humanly possible.

Are we doing everything reasonably possible to ensure the fairest possible results? You have mentioned many times about the scoring errors and always double check your scoresheets. Is this that different?

It is a bit different than the scenarios you described in that the Wildcat bid isn't (directly) taking anything away from someone else. It isn't a zero-sum situation like replay or scoring division winners.

Given the assumption that Wildcats would be a strong contender for a paid bid at the later bid events, most other paid-bid-hopefuls in our area are probably excited that 3 perennial Worlds medalists all got their paid bids this weekend. It basically slightly increases the chances of teams like Woodlands Elite Generals/Commanders, Texas Lonestar Red/Co Red, Champion Cheer Heat, Prodigy Midnight, CA FierceKatz, Pro Spirit Sm Coed, etc. to end up with a paid bid at NCA or other events.

The unfortunate things in the whole scenario are:

1. Spirit Med Co didn't get their "moment" of being called out as a bid winner.
2. Wildcats, through no fault of their own, are taking criticism for getting an "unearned" bid.
3. ACA pays for 24 athletes to go to Worlds that they otherwise would not have to have done.
4. ACA gets an undeserved reputation as being either shady or sloppy.

 

[cheerinfo]

And yes ACEDAD, this did happen at NCA about 4 (??) years ago when WC Cosmic Rays was small coed and did not get a bid that they deserved because NCA mistakenly thought they would have refused it because at that time, there was no "small coed" division at worlds, so they would have had to compete against WC Odyssey. So they "skipped" over C Rays and gave the bid to someone else. A week or so later, NCA remedied that situation by simply giving an additional full paid bid to C Rays. I believe that was the first of these three "mishaps".