Division I And Division Ii At Worlds - Big Gym Separation

Discussion in 'Allstar Cheerleading' started by King, Jun 30, 2013.

  1. p.o.k.

    p.o.k. When all else fails.... I shimmy

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    Who decides who is elite - some random secretive selection committee. There were approximately 22 paid bids in small senior plus partials in 2013. Some of the powerhouses did not make finals.

     
  2. Coach Troy

    Coach Troy When all else fails.... I shimmy

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    I dislike the idea of categorizing our industry into division I & division II because there is ...

    1. no real way to establish the qualifications for placing a gym in either category
    (there are many examples of VERY competitive small programs as well as lagre gyms that are not.)
    2. because once we do the first split, the bottom of divII will want their own division so very quickly we will have divIII, divIV, divV, etc, etc......

    Overall it just is not needed. Division sizes across the board will go down and not just at worlds...this divI & divII nonsense will spread to the rest of our competitions. We don't need to keep giving out more trophies, in fact, it would serve us better if we gave LESS......
     
  3. nccheerdad

    nccheerdad Last Pass... on International Open 1

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    Funny that you mention this. In European soccer, it is called the 'UEFA Champions League." Where have we heard about 'Champions League' lately? Seems to me that this 'split' may already be in progress. D1 will be in Philly in April.
     
  4. nccheerdad

    nccheerdad Last Pass... on International Open 1

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    I can understand this argument, and in a perfect world it would be true. But, I think that the J5, SRR5 kids are definitely important to this conversation. If a few 14-16 year-olds have L5 skills but don't make the only Worlds Team in that small gym, I would say there's a pretty good chance they are getting in their car and driving however far they need to to be on a D1 gym's Worlds team, or exploring other options. Especially if they (or parent) feels that they should be one of the top 20.
     
  5. tumbleyoda

    tumbleyoda Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    The "split' has always been here. We just have not wanted to acknowledge it.
     
  6. nccheerdad

    nccheerdad Last Pass... on International Open 1

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    May be just semantics, but when I say 'split' I'm thinking possible break-up/separation/divorce. To use another college football similarity, I would probably bet my house in saying that the top 30 football schools will not be governed by the NCAA in 10 years. They don't need them.
     
  7. tumbleyoda

    tumbleyoda Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    Just semantics.:D
     
  8. NewbCoach

    NewbCoach They call me Susie

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    Same way it is done now, bids re given at major comps through the year. not the best system imo but not sure what else you do to give teams the chance to compete for spots. 10 was a random number, pick numbers that fit for the number of teams you want at worlds in each division and each catagory and that fit for the venue.
     
  9. Coach Troy

    Coach Troy When all else fails.... I shimmy

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    so it is the event producers that decide who is "elite"??
    some of those paid bids go to teams where literally there is only 4 or 5 teams attending should they be chosen over a team that got an at-large at a competition with 75 teams??

    we need to all go after a bid....attend on whatever bid you received....and let the judges on one weekend decide the final outcome.....Don't change what doesn't need to be changed. Don't look for an easier road

    "Nothing good comes in life or athletics unless a lot of hard work has preceded the effort. Only temporary success is achieved by taking short cuts."
    -Roger Staubach-
     
  10. stuntjumptumble

    stuntjumptumble Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    Yes definitely cheer force


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  11. NewbCoach

    NewbCoach They call me Susie

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    Not sure if the question was directed at me, but first off, I agree with you, I don't like the idea of two divisions.

    However, if you are going to go that route, reduce the number of bids given out so that there are less teams getting them. Only give them out at major comps forcing the teams that want them to compete against each other at big comps to get them. then give out D2 bids based on small and large gyms that are not quite there yet to give teams something other than a globe to compete for and still keep the sport improving as a whole. I just really hate the idea of forcing small gyms into a D2 situation based on number of athletes.
     
  12. gofriars610

    gofriars610 Moderator Staff Member National Champion

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    I've thought about this, and I think once a gym declares itself to be D2 or D1 they should stay there and not bounce around or be allowed to "play up" when they want to.

    I'm drawing a comparison to college athletics. My school only had about 3500 students, but we competed in NCAA D1 athletics. Some years, we really were awful. Other years we made the final four in basketball. We're a smaller school, but we aren't able to just bounce to D2 when we feel like it and play up when we have a good team.

    People understand that D1 is D1 and D2 is D2. Nobody on earth thinks that Elmira College's women's ice hockey team (which won D3 this year) is comparable to University of Minnesota's (who won D1 with a perfect record). Did EC's win take away from Minnesota's? No way.
     
  13. RockstarCheer

    RockstarCheer When all else fails.... I shimmy

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    I'm thinking that D2 should be 150-200 athletes or less. If a gym has multiple locations then those locations must be included in the overall number total. So if a gym has 120 at one location and 50 at another that Would be 170 total for their program total. If a gym wants to be classified as a small gym then change the name of that gym. If they use the same name then it's one gym/program
     
  14. JumpingJackFlash

    JumpingJackFlash I'm an announcer on CBS for Worlds (or should be)

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    I don't like it at all. Worlds to me is the Olympics of cheer, not another national. I wish Worlds was truly what it was supposed to be, the best of the best...not a money maker. So if this happens, will Worlds now be 5 days long? Cray cray....
     
  15. Emily

    Emily International Cheer Correspondent Staff Member National Champion

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    I feel that you should still be able to compete D2 if you have two worlds teams that compete in different levels. You usually can't form only one worlds team if you have level 5 kids ages 12-25, so I think that level 5 and level 6 should be separated to determine D1 and D2.

    Like some others I don't like the idea of giving out more trophies at worlds. But I see where the small gym owners come from. If the industry continues like it did during the past years the small gyms will soon only be "feeder-gyms" to the mega gyms.

    I would actually hate to have D1/D2 for small and medium divisions. I don't feel that the medium divisions are big enough yet to make a D1/D2-separation, but rather think that for trying this the first year it should only be done for the small divisions.

    What I do like about this idea: I think it will help small gyms to put out routines that they hit. If they want to be competitive in D2 they cannot put out a routine that maybe hits and if they're lucky they will make semis. Right now I feel that many gyms let their athletes compete routines that might hit because they won't advance to semis unless they get lucky and hit the difficult routine. Competing in D2 would give them the motivation to put out solid routines because then they could actually win.
    I hope that this will also grow the restricted 5 divisions. If gyms can only have one level 5 worlds team to stay in D2, they will only put true level 5 athletes on it and maybe win D2, rather than having 2 janky teams that end up in the bottom 10 of their division.