High School State Competition Changes

[CheerBank]

Meanwhile in NY we're just twiddling our thumbs wondering what new changes will be brought to comp season since its a sport. And yet somehow all the better high school teams in Long Island have all booked their flights to Disney already....

 

[EWalsh1029]

What sense does it make to create a new division but not allow them to compete for the state title? That is more equal to telling the top programs to just disband.


**But I saw it on the Internet, it must be true**

They would still compete for a state title... It would be like a grand state title (at least that's how I view it) ... Battle of the best... All the top teams (who are in the top consistently year after year) competing against one another for some very intense competition!

Should be interesting to see if it actually gets implemented and how it works out! I don't really have a say as the program I coach now is not at the level to be considered into this division..

 

[Official OWECheer]

Meanwhile in NY we're just twiddling our thumbs wondering what new changes will be brought to comp season since its a sport. And yet somehow all the better high school teams in Long Island have all booked their flights to Disney already....

So they're still allowed to go?

 

[CheerBank]

So they're still allowed to go?

They apparently know something the rest of us don't. Which I'm not surprised about. LICA (Long Island Cheerleading Association) was always like a gang of mean girls with their favorite schools and then the rest of us. The same group now has, from what I'm hearing, positioned itself to have major involvement in creation of the rules for cheer as a sport in NYS.

 

[Cheer Dad]

They would still compete for a state title... It would be like a grand state title (at least that's how I view it) ... Battle of the best... All the top teams (who are in the top consistently year after year) competing against one another for some very intense competition!

Should be interesting to see if it actually gets implemented and how it works out! I don't really have a say as the program I coach now is not at the level to be considered into this division..

Oops, I misread the OP. Read it as no state title option for those teams but rather they just won't be competing in their regular division. Thank you for clarifying.

So this now really boils down to teams that used to have a chance of winning their division, regardless of how weak or strong that division is, may have competition and not win when facing other competitive teams, right?


Edited to add: How are divisions currently set? Geographic area, school size,....

**But I saw it on the Internet, it must be true**

 

[EWalsh1029]

Oops, I misread the OP. Read it as no state title option for those teams but rather they just won't be competing in their regular division. Thank you for clarifying.

So this now really boils down to teams that used to have a chance of winning their division, regardless of how weak or strong that division is, may have competition and not win when facing other competitive teams, right?




**But I saw it on the Internet, it must be true**

Exactly, at least thats how I see it!

 

[Cheer Dad]

Exactly, at least thats how I see it!

How are current divisions made?


**But I saw it on the Internet, it must be true**

 

[EWalsh1029]

How are current divisions made?


**But I saw it on the Internet, it must be true**

By School Size; so D1,D2,D3,D4, Small Co-ed, Large Co-ed. D1 is largest # of girls in school, D4 is smallest # of girls in school


***Not sure how co-ed is set up; i think once they clarify as co-ed the MSSAA separates them into sm/lrg depending on their enrollment as well.
Our alignments:
http://mssaa.org/gen/mssaa_generate...e/20152016_thru_20162017_cheer_alignments.pdf

 

[quitthedrama]

By School Size; so D1,D2,D3,D4, Small Co-ed, Large Co-ed. D1 is largest # of girls in school, D4 is smallest # of girls in school


***Not sure how co-ed is set up; i think once they clarify as co-ed the MSSAA separates them into sm/lrg depending on their enrollment as well.
Our alignments:
http://mssaa.org/gen/mssaa_generate...e/20152016_thru_20162017_cheer_alignments.pdf

Correct on everything including coed. It is split by population of school, not number of athletes on the team.

 

[Cheer Dad]

By School Size; so D1,D2,D3,D4, Small Co-ed, Large Co-ed. D1 is largest # of girls in school, D4 is smallest # of girls in school


***Not sure how co-ed is set up; i think once they clarify as co-ed the MSSAA separates them into sm/lrg depending on their enrollment as well.
Our alignments:
http://mssaa.org/gen/mssaa_generate...e/20152016_thru_20162017_cheer_alignments.pdf

Split by size makes sense but so does the prospect of splitting the power house teams so they may actually have competition.

Not sure of the teams in MA but what incentive is there for a team that easily wins their division to get better if they don't compete against other strong teams.

Isn't there a MA team that won NCA Grand Champions last season? Do other teams in their division even come close to them in competition? I am guessing not, so why not have them compete against other top teams?


**But I saw it on the Internet, it must be true**

 

[quitthedrama]

Oops, I misread the OP. Read it as no state title option for those teams but rather they just won't be competing in their regular division. Thank you for clarifying.

So this now really boils down to teams that used to have a chance of winning their division, regardless of how weak or strong that division is, may have competition and not win when facing other competitive teams, right?


Edited to add: How are divisions currently set? Geographic area, school size,....

**But I saw it on the Internet, it must be true**

I read the original post the same way. It is actually the opposite. Now (if the proposal passes), the top teams will compete for THE state title and the best of the best will compete against each other. It is a great proposal, although I think Advanced, intermediate and beginner divisions would solve all the issues across the board. The thought process behind the current division splits (which is used for every Mass high school sport) is Division 1 would be considered most competitive since they have the highest population of athletes to choose from. It doesn't always work out that way, but it doesn't work out that way at all with cheer. For example, last year's NCA Grand champs are in division 3 but there are some Division 1 teams in some parts of our state that have primarily level 1 and 2 skills.

 

[EWalsh1029]

Split by size makes sense but so does the prospect of splitting the power house teams so they may actually have competition.

Not sure of the teams in MA but what incentive is there for a team that easily wins their division to get better if they don't compete against other strong teams.

Isn't there a MA team that won NCA Grand Champions last season? Do other teams in their division even come close to them in competition? I am guessing not, so why not have them compete against other top teams?


**But I saw it on the Internet, it must be true**

Yup! Dracut - and I don't think teams in their division come close to them, personally... 99% of the team they are beating teams by a good 5+ points.

 

[Cheer Dad]

Yup! Dracut - and I don't think teams in their division come close to them, personally... 99% of the team they are beating teams by a good 5+ points.

That illustrates the need for a different division split.

How would they do against the other top teams in D1 and D2?


**But I saw it on the Internet, it must be true**

 

[quitthedrama]

That illustrates the need for a different division split.

How would they do against the other top teams in D1 and D2?


**But I saw it on the Internet, it must be true**

It would be far more competitive. They could very well win, but there are some great teams in D1 and D2. This gives an idea of the score ranges within each division (results for winter were far different - Dracut won their division by almost 30 points and scored the highest of the day by almost 6 points. Many all star athletes only compete in the Fall):

http://mssaa.org/gen/mssaa_generated_bin/documents/basic_module/F14_State_CHEER__Results.pdf

The only issue I see with the new proposal is teams could sandbag at Regionals so they wouldn't have to compete against teams they know they can't beat, so I still think changing the divisions to Advanced, Intermediate and Beginner makes far more sense.

Anyway, this discussion has been interesting and now that I know the facts I'm not worried that anything shady is going on as the original post indicated.

 

[EWalsh1029]

That illustrates the need for a different division split.

How would they do against the other top teams in D1 and D2?


**But I saw it on the Internet, it must be true**

There would be more competition, definitely, I have a feeling they would still come out on top though. Dracut was D2 about 3 or 4 years ago when they started to become a 'powerhouse'; so half of their state titles are in D2, and the other are in D3. They are just a very well-oiled machine with coaches who know how to hit a score sheet.