All-Star Major Multi-location Gyms Discussion

[THEJOEL]

Well, I'm certainly not asking (nor expecting) sympathy for the pressures we are under, just merely stating my perspective. We also are fortunate to no longer have many of the day-to-day pressures that most gyms feel.

To your point, I do think that Summit will have some negative effects on the athletes. They could burn out on the sport because of the greatly shortened off-season, burned out on the Mouse House well before they get Worlds age, or burned out of money from annual flights to Orlando.

I really believe that the biggest negative effects, however, are on the independent (not Varsity) event producers. They are getting killed by Summit and that is a potentially devastating loss for the industry. I understand the concern for there "only" being 15-20 programs that make up most of the gym business in the US - however, we are in far greater danger of a single entity (Varsity) controlling the entire event side. They put on fantastic events and provide a great service. However, I hate to see them be the only option in the future.

I agree that this is negative over all for the industry. You can't say in one breathe that you hate the monopoly that Varsity has on this sport and then say in the next that Suzy has to go to Summit.
I think in the future, unless something changes, that if it's not a Varsity event parents will pressure owners to not spend their money on a non-bid event.
Now with the D2 Summit for small gyms it will even put a tighter stranglehold on non-Varsity events.
Unfortunately with the loopholes on what gyms are considered D2, just look at the list of gyms that have D2 bids and you will see big names, we will see more and more smaller gyms get obsorbed by larger ones. If you look around you will see that trend has already begun.

 

[amy1k]

I think that experienced parents will tire of bid-chasing, but it won't ever matter because the inexperienced parents will be the ones bringing the cash. I know very few parents of older, higher-level athletes who are still excited about a trip to the Summit after 2 or 3 years attending. Personally, if I owed a gym in MY AREA (south of Seattle), I'd attempt to sell parents on a competition schedule that had us visiting a different big travel completion every season (in addition to Portland, I'm fine with those) ...to get a taste of cheer around the country...and then Summit on paid bids only.

I know my comments are somewhat off-topic, but I think they are relative when discussing bid-gym takeovers and remaining relevant in a smaller market.

 

[SL&AM]

Well, I'm certainly not asking (nor expecting) sympathy for the pressures we are under, just merely stating my perspective. We also are fortunate to no longer have many of the day-to-day pressures that most gyms feel.

To your point, I do think that Summit will have some negative effects on the athletes. They could burn out on the sport because of the greatly shortened off-season, burned out on the Mouse House well before they get Worlds age, or burned out of money from annual flights to Orlando.

I really believe that the biggest negative effects, however, are on the independent (not Varsity) event producers. They are getting killed by Summit and that is a potentially devastating loss for the industry. I understand the concern for there "only" being 15-20 programs that make up most of the gym business in the US - however, we are in far greater danger of a single entity (Varsity) controlling the entire event side. They put on fantastic events and provide a great service. However, I hate to see them be the only option in the future.

Sorry, didn't want it to come across as sympathy, just stating that your point made sense and also that I think a lot of people forget that bigger programs also deal with crazy Susie mom's too.

Thank you for your opinion

 

[icequeen]

Crazy right?

I still dont know the locations of all the previous 10.

 

[quitthedrama]

I would GLADLY switch my daughter to a gym that didn't bid chase and still put together competitive teams. I'm fine going to Summit with an amazing team that gets a bid at one of the few opportunities...but I'm exhausted financially and mentally by the idea that we need to travel to country in hopes to get a bid. All of our gym options do the same...as a matter of fact, they seem to be trying to one-up the bid opportunities. My FANTASY is a big-named gym coming in and offering parents a choice for where they'd like to spend their money. I'd prefer spending my money at the gym my daughter is part of, but bid chasing is swallowing up my funds. I can no longer afford classes or private lessons or other purchases, because my money goes to travel. I feel like that is short-sided on the part of our local gyms. When I hear parents from big-name programs say they get to VOTE on things like Summit? Yeah. I'd like that very much. I have ZERO interest flying to Orlando for UCA (gyms here are adding it more and more) with the hopes of ANOTHER Orlando trip a month later. My money tree is depleted. I know it's no guarantee of that ending, but that's my big-gym expansion fantasy.

Edited to add: my daughter ages out in three years. I'm going to, most likely, hold my breath and push through. I don't see how cheer can survive in our area, though, if this doesn't change. I see people depleting their savings in order to keep up the facade of this cheer life and that can't be maintained indefinitely.

so much yes to all of this, but especially the bolded part. I stopped privates because my travel schedule is financially consuming. I would MUCH rather have my kids gain skills than a jacket, but the travel schedule dictates otherwise. I understand the pressure the gyms face in attending the invitation only events or big name nationals, and 2 flight comps a year is in my budget, but any more than that is pricing me out.

 

[MomMomMamaMom]

I agree completely that social media has played a huge part in the easy "expansionism" that is happening now. Also the death of the independent EP. Now that everyone has to go to more of the same competitions to get bids, brand recognition is way higher. Also, we parents are all much more likely to spend the money we have to for travel teams etc. in children's sports in general.

My hope is that those who expand care enough about their athletes enough to remember that we are societally responsible for making good people... Not just making money. It seriously concerns me that I see such a lot of hate and overt sexual and drug references within the community that appear to be overlooked for wins. This isn't, by any means, limited to cheer, but I, as a parent, originally found the cheer community to be much more wholesome and team driven then it is now. Furthermore, I've probably been priced out of the industry....

 

[Mndl]

I'm a new cheer parent who has no desire to chase bids for Summit. CP's gym would have gone to the D2 summit had they gotten a bid and I was dreading the thought of it, luckily we didn't get one. We have four two day competitions on our schedule, all within a 3 hour or less driving distance, and that is more than enough for me. I honestly have no desire to fly anywhere for a competition at this point. I wish it was more like gymnastics, the top level 10's get to go to JO National; the best level 9's go to Eastern or Western Regional; levels 3-8 qualify to their State Championships and that's as far as they go. I guess I just don't understand the appeal of spending hundreds or thousands of dollars to say my team was the Summit Junior level 2 champion.

 

[BlueCat]

In Ohio, most likely bc the "clue" on Twitter is exactly the same...

It isn't exactly the same. I'm surprised the FB grammar nazis haven't pounced.

 

[12stepCheermom]

I would agree that the "bid chase" phenomenon plays a role in this transformation of the industry. We (CA) have benefitted greatly from it - perhaps more than anyone outside of Memphis. I'm not entirely sure that having this type of event is in the long-term best interest of the industry, however.

I fear that the Summit has taken that phenomenon from just the top 3% of teams (Worlds) and spread it throughout most of the rest of the divisions. We tried to resist it at first and just flat out turned down Summit bids the first season. However, we feel enormous pressure from the parents/customers to "treat everyone like the Worlds teams" assuming that automatically means good things for them. We were potentially losing athletes to gyms that were billing themselves as "Summit Gyms". Ultimately, we are in business to provide the service that our athletes and parents want, so we now cater a large part of our season around going for bids.

In large part due to the competitive nature of getting those bids, it affects our team selection. In order to "keep up" with other programs at every level, you are essentially forced to keep upping your standards for making a particular level. Soon, everyone does it until you have essentially moved every athlete in the country down a level or two. (Except for the often desperate gyms who will offer to put Suzy on a higher level team if they just switch to their gym.) Perhaps that is for the good of the athletes, but that is an unintended consequence.

It also affects our selection of locations for new gyms. Opening a gym across town simply creates more competition for those local bid opportunities. That isn't to say that we won't ever open gyms in our same region, but Summit/Worlds put a "spread out" pressure on your expansion.

I think Pandora's Box is already wide open on this however. Suggest to a parent that it may not serve their athletes' best interests to build their season around getting a Summit bid and all they hear is "you don't care about my child as much as your Worlds teams."

In reference to your conversation about athlete placement, I appreciate that you build your summit team at tryouts and that's the team all year.

The proliferation of gyms changing out athletes, teams, divisions, holding tryouts, swapping earned bids around their teams for both summit and worlds (not as rampant for worlds due to the rules but athlete changing happens frequently) is indicative of two significant problems.

1) that the summit is interested in money only and not the integrity of cheer (or the athletes involved in these shenanigans) or they'd actually put some rules in place and

2) that The Susie Mom psychosis of jacket counting, bid chasing, cheerlebrity-wannabe making etc is spreading to the gym owners/coaches who probably have no choice but to join the crazy since they can't beat it (literally or figuratively). So (and I know I'm biased for obvious reasons) thanks CA for doing it as responsibly and ethically as you can amid this landscape. I'd rather do it your way and finish shy of a ring (if you even do, I think several of your teams are legit contenders on their own) than compromise kids and ethics just to "win." That's a lesson I don't want to teach my kids.

End soapbox.


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[crazzyeyesassypants]

In reference to your conversation about athlete placement, I appreciate that you build your summit team at tryouts and that's the team all year.

The proliferation of gyms changing out athletes, teams, divisions, holding tryouts, swapping earned bids around their teams for both summit and worlds (not as rampant for worlds due to the rules but athlete changing happens frequently) is indicative of two significant problems.

1) that the summit is interested in money only and not the integrity of cheer (or the athletes involved in these shenanigans) or they'd actually put some rules in place and

2) that The Susie Mom psychosis of jacket counting, bid chasing, cheerlebrity-wannabe making etc is spreading to the gym owners/coaches who probably have no choice but to join the crazy since they can't beat it (literally or figuratively). So (and I know I'm biased for obvious reasons) thanks CA for doing it as responsibly and ethically as you can amid this landscape. I'd rather do it your way and finish shy of a ring (if you even do, I think several of your teams are legit contenders on their own) than compromise kids and ethics just to "win." That's a lesson I don't want to teach my kids.

End soapbox.


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I want to shimmy this so many times!! I would throw the BIGGEST fit if my kid got kicked out of a team right before Worlds or Summit. Of course if she was hurt it would be another story but if you want to replace my kid just because you want to add a level higher athlete because their team didn't get a bid[emoji35] OMG I would be livid!! So my kid is good enough to earn that bid but not good enough to attend the comp now. If this is happening on the regular at gyms I don't understand how parents don't freak out.


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[PeanutsMom]

Rockstar Cleveland...

Cheer in Ohio just gets more interesting every day.

 

[C*A-Shelby K]

Rockstar Cleveland...

Cheer in Ohio just gets more interesting every day.

Looks like they are taking over Spirit Athletics from what I'm seeing. They must either be a pretty new gym/or pretty small I never really heard of this gym before and I live about an hour and a half away.

 

[MomMomMamaMom]

"Hello Cleveland..." Am I the only one who feels they must have a team called Spinal Tap?

 

[PeanutsMom]

Looks like they are taking over Spirit Athletics from what I'm seeing. They must either be a pretty new gym/or pretty small I never really heard of this gym before and I live about an hour and a half away.

It's a small gym that has been around for awhile. It's actually in Solon, OH - which I think is part of the "snow belt" area, but not sure. I prefer to travel away from the snow belt area rather than into it!

 

[stcchamp]

Looks like they are taking over Spirit Athletics from what I'm seeing. They must either be a pretty new gym/or pretty small I never really heard of this gym before and I live about an hour and a half away.

Very small.