All-Star 2015 Worlds Packet

[RS_Amie]

because there is IASF for countries other than the US, does this mean they're safe? like the athletes traveling over a European border to cheer (which is equivalent to someone traveling from PA to NJ to cheer.) does the USASF rule ONLY impact US-based gyms? so everyone competing with a gym registered in the United States has to legally be in the United States? I am much more okay with the rule only being about the US rather than the whole world. still poor timing, though.

side note - isn't there an EU passport that allows you into all 28 member states freely, without a visa? I'm very rusty on my international knowledge, but isn't there that whole "freedom of movement" rule? so USASF/IASF could not stop European athletes from cheering in other countries, because you'd be in that country legally. right?

I'm not too sure legally but I know that my British passport will allow me to live in all(?) EU countries. There are some countries in the EU that can live but cannot work legally in the other EU countries (again I think, not too sure)...

 

[njallday]

I'm not too sure legally but I know that my British passport will allow me to live in all(?) EU countries. There are some countries in the EU that can live but cannot work legally in the other EU countries (again I think, not too sure)...

if you're allowed to live in a country, i don't see why you couldn't cheer in that country, as well. loophole? at least for our European friends.

doesn't help the Canadians crossing borders to cheer, though. the school I go to is about 40% canadian since we're so close. I have a few friends from Buffalo, NY as well as Toronto and they have said that they can pass through the border freely without visas because of the proximity of the two cities. I know nothing about the technicalities to that. does anyone know?

give me a few more days and i'll find loopholes for everyone lol

 

[quitthedrama]

Violating a country's immigration laws is a lot different than going 10 miles over the speed limit. I'm not saying this rule is great, and the timing is seriously horrible, but I don't think it's the end of the world. I agree that there are other things the USASF should be prioritizing but I don't think this rule is a bad idea. However, it shouldn't be put in place for the 2015 worlds. The rule clearly isn't developed enough since everyone has so many valid questions about it that a two sentence blurb in the worlds packet can't answer.


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So a US citizen shouldn't cheer for a Canadian gym even if it is the closest option (and vice versa)? Some real life situations that people have brought up have nothing to do with violating immigration laws.

 

[FlexyTumblerMom]

This just looks like someone got pi$$ed at Cali, threw a tantrum, and said "But how come they get to have all these athletes from across borders?? That's not fair!!"
Sure, a couple of other programs have been mentioned as having noncitizen athletes, but most discussed have been on Cali teams, correct?
USASF has a habit of making rules for the entire sport that scream "Oh hey, (Insert Random Team) All Stars."
I agree with BlueCat, BowCat, heck, all the Cats. Fix actual issues, governing body, then worry about residency requirements.
Sweep around your own front door before you sweep around mine.

Making rules for everyone that are actually directed at a few specific high profile people is not just a USASF thing - I'd bet a good portion of laws and policies in this world start out as a reaction to something that one or a few people just took too far (especially when it's widely known to the masses what that that person/people did). Anything seen on that Smoed web show is bound to get a "reaction" in the cheer world if people see it as unfair or wrong. It may get to the point that they start making rules against all these host family situations (even though that stuff has been going on long before the smoed cheelebrities were shown doing it on the show) because now it's highly visible and I'd bet a lot of gyms don't like it.

 

[youbetterwork]

I don't think there should be a rule about this at all. Several people have mentioned situations where people cross border to cheer, without living in that country.

I think it would be enough that USASF inform all the gyms that their athletes must have a valid visa if they're LIVING in that country. USASF can provide arguments for it, such as insurance, chance of being banned from the US etc. Then it being up to the gyms and the athletes to handle it.

 

[omgitssydthekid]

So a US citizen shouldn't cheer for a Canadian gym even if it is the closest option (and vice versa)? Some real life situations that people have brought up have nothing to do with violating immigration laws.

I don't really care where Susie cheers as long as she (or he) does it legally. The problem is that not everyone is doing it legally, and I assume that is why the rule has been implemented. I don't think the rule should be in place until next year because the season is well underway.




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[pochantas22]

Yes people aren't doing it legally that's the point.

When college students come here to work for companies for a period of time, each student must have a J1 visa. The company has to provide medical insurance for the student in the event the student gets hurt. The company is liable for the student. (Knowledge due Personal experience) These gyms aren't doing any of this. So if athlete gets hurt then what? Can you imagine if they get hurt at Worlds?

In looking at the eligibility requirements for the Junior Olympics an athlete must provide a birth certificate , form FD240, immigration and naturalization form issued by US Department of Justice, passport, DL or Homeland security card.

 

[caitlyn_the_camille]

I hope what @njallday said about the EU passport is right, because otherwise this would be affecting far more athletes in Europe than America. What I really want to know though, is how USASF can justify giving a 2 (maybe 3?) year advance notice for half top and cover up rules changing, but implement this rule midseason without any warning...

 

[quitthedrama]

I don't really care where Susie cheers as long as she (or he) does it legally. The problem is that not everyone is doing it legally, and I assume that is why the rule has been implemented. I don't think the rule should be in place until next year because the season is well underway.
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Yes people aren't doing it legally that's the point.

When college students come here to work for companies for a period of time, each student must have a J1 visa. The company has to provide medical insurance for the student in the event the student gets hurt. The company is liable for the student. (Knowledge due Personal experience) These gyms aren't doing any of this. So if athlete gets hurt then what? Can you imagine if they get hurt at Worlds?

In looking at the eligibility requirements for the Junior Olympics an athlete must provide a birth certificate , form FD240, immigration and naturalization form issued by US Department of Justice, passport, DL or Homeland security card.

But people ARE doing it legally, and they are now ineligible per this ridiculously timed rule that USASF just randomly decided to implement. And because of another ridiculous USASF rule, if they don't get a release they can't compete at Worlds this year.

 

[omgitssydthekid]

But people ARE doing it legally, and they are now ineligible per this ridiculously timed rule that USASF just randomly decided to implement. And because of another ridiculous USASF rule, if they don't get a release they can't compete at Worlds this year.

I said I don't care as long as they do it legally so I don't get your point of continuing this conversation with me.


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[catlady]

Unfortunately, I don't think timing is a call the USASF gets to make, my guess is this has been dictated by the ACA and the underwriters of the insurance policies. The USASF has to insure their participants are covered and in these situations, individual/private policies would not be acknowledged.

 

[BlueCat]

Yes people aren't doing it legally that's the point.

When college students come here to work for companies for a period of time, each student must have a J1 visa. The company has to provide medical insurance for the student in the event the student gets hurt. The company is liable for the student. (Knowledge due Personal experience) These gyms aren't doing any of this. So if athlete gets hurt then what? Can you imagine if they get hurt at Worlds?

The athletes don't typically work for the gyms, so I'm not sure how your example applies. Also, J1 Visas are typically non-resident, so they wouldn't make you eligible to compete under this new rule anyway.

Also (personal pet peeve of mine) health insurance is not the same thing as health care. Having medical insurance doesn't keep you from getting hurt, nor does the lack of health insurance mean you don't get treated for injury. It is simply provides a way to pay for medical services. If an athlete gets hurt at Worlds, they are going to get cared for regardless of whether they have insurance (or here legally, for that matter). I would recommend all of the athletes have personal health insurance, but I certainly wouldn't make it a requirement to take the floor. Beyond philosophical reasons, the logistics of confirming health insurance enrollment would add yet another logistical nightmare to an already bloated bureaucracy.

USASF provides a weak version of health insurance through their annual membership. If they have an issue with coverage of non-residents, the place to address that is at membership registration, not eligibility for Worlds. Worlds is a small part of their membership. If you mean liability insurance - the gym's liability insurance won't cover USASF or Disney regardless of residency.

We could argue until we are blue in the face about the athletes who are here "illegally". As I read the rule, this prohibits athletes who are here legally, but not residents, from competing. This is the frustrating part.

Unfortunately, I don't think timing is a call the USASF gets to make, my guess is this has been dictated by the ACA and the underwriters of the insurance policies. The USASF has to insure their participants are covered and in these situations, individual/private policies would not be acknowledged.

If a German citizen is competing at Worlds, why would the liability change if the team she was competing for had an address in Belgium? I get that some events (Junior Olympics, for example) would require all of the competitors to be a U.S. citizen, but this event has athletes competing from dozens of countries anyway.

 

[quitthedrama]

I said I don't care as long as they do it legally so I don't get your point of continuing this conversation with me.


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.... because it's a discussion board? I understood from your post that you are in support of the rule because of people that are competing for a team that reside in a country where they may not have a legal right to be, but you were not in support of the timing of the rule. Perhaps I misunderstood your post, but I was simply bringing up actual situations where an athlete is violating the rule as written by the USASF even though they are doing nothing illegally. These athletes have paid tuition, competition fees, uniform fees, and face the possibility of losing all of that money and the possibility of not being released because of this new rule.
I was discussing. On a discussion board. No harm meant.

 

[catlady]

@BlueCat I truly can't answer your questions concerning other countries. What I do know is the ACA has changed the criteria for businesses in what they have to require and provide concerning their insurance. Insurance underwriters are in CYA mode right now because of the extent of the ACA requirements and just overall lack of knowledge in the content. My assumption, and we know what assuming is worth, is that International lawyers would be needed to insure all the legaleeze is in order when an athlete crosses the borders and is not covered under International student provisions. I certainly feel for all of these kids, parents, gyms and teammates.

 

[BlueCat]

@BlueCat I truly can't answer your questions concerning other countries. What I do know is the ACA has changed the criteria for businesses in what they have to require and provide concerning their insurance. Insurance underwriters are in CYA mode right now because of the extent of the ACA requirements and just overall lack of knowledge in the content. My assumption, and we know what assuming is worth, is that International lawyers would be needed to insure all the legaleeze is in order when an athlete crosses the borders and is not covered under International student provisions. I certainly feel for all of these kids, parents, gyms and teammates.

I admittedly don't know the details of Obamacare, but I don't believe it requires businesses to provide health insurance for their customers (athletes). It certainly impacts what they must offer their employees (coaches).