All-Star I'm Going To Cheat

[cheercurl]

A team I coached was accused of using an overage athlete a few years ago. The proof...she looked too old to be on a junior team. It really pissed me off that my name was being dragged through the mud because my kid could pass for 18, but was 13. Thankfully, an EP gave me a heads up that there were phone calls going out to every competition we were attending. I made sure mom had a certified copy of her bc with her all season.

Bottom line, if you don't have proof, don't spread the rumor. You cannot tell age by the way a kid looks, what they post on social media, or what a rival spreads about them.



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I can attest to the fact it is possible to have a 12 year old look like she is 16 or 17 years old. I was thinking if they moved the youth cut off date, she could have ended up on a youth team and I would have to get her a picture ID and carry her birth certificate because she would be the kid other mommies would be asking about.

 

[cheercurl]

Maybe the Olympic way could work. You must submit an inquiry in writing with $100.00 in cash. I know $100.00 doesn't seem like much but it would stop the I think that girl is to old...why? because she kind of looks old.

It would probably help keep frivolous claims to a minimum...and make it easier to fund investigating a claim.

 

[12stepCheermom]

I can attest to the fact it is possible to have a 12 year old look like she is 16 or 17 years old. I was thinking if they moved the youth cut off date, she could have ended up on a youth team and I would have to get her a picture ID and carry her birth certificate because she would be the kid other mommies would be asking about.

my own flesh and blood is 14 and looks 18+ we hosted multiple college baseball players in our home all summer and every time the team came over his "summer brothers" had to lay down the law that he was only 14 and he would be given NO beer

Love those boys!

 

[WorkToWin]

Maybe the Olympic way could work. You must submit an inquiry in writing with $100.00 in cash. I know $100.00 doesn't seem like much but it would stop the I think that girl is to old...why? because she kind of looks old.

It would probably help keep frivolous claims to a minimum...and make it easier to fund investigating a claim.

then if the claim turns out to be proven true does the cheater have to reimburse the person who made the claim?

 

[xtremeteal4life]

While 99% of humanity will just 'do the right thing' there is that 1% who will sneak and try and bend the rules for themselves. You can't rely on the kindness or morality of people to follow the rules. You have to have punishments or people will take advantage. Always remember the scorpion and the frog.

May I ask you a question since you've been so open about the athlete who was overage w/whom you competed, then turned in, gave back the awards, and all of your analogies about not "bending" rules and everything needing to be concrete for a reason, etc? Has an EP ever bent the rules (let's say within the past 3-5 years since your program has been around for a long time) for your gym before?

 

[xtremeteal4life]

I think this is the most important point of all and one I was discussing with a friend just yesterday. I think parents get so caught up in the hype that they just look the other way.

Would you leave a gym who clearly cheated, like having more than the alloted # of athletes compete or using an athlete you knew was age ineligible? If so, would there be conditions..like if it wasn't your CP's team, but another team at your gym would you still stay or look the other way. It's an honest question based upon your reply I quoted and what I perceive your stance to be, but I could be wrong, which is why I'm asking.

 

[coachrah]

Ok it just hit me that you all are saying that the one making the accusation is the one who has to provide the proof?!?!? That is absurd!!! Because I usually walk around with certified copies of birth certificates of my competitors.

One of two scenarios would be much better...

1. Accusing team (coach or parent) can submit a claim by paying a fee that is refunded if claim is true. USASF an then ask for an official birth certificate copy (or passport) for claim.

2. If enough reasonable circumstantial information is submitted, USASF can require proof of age as in #1.

Does it really need to be much more complicated than that???

I don't think anything should be complicated for parents, gym owners, coaches and the athletes in this sport. There should be no guessing games on the rules and infractions as they occur. It is my understanding that all governing bodies have a (hopefully) clear set of bylaws for their members. When a group seeks non-profit status, their chosen tax structure determines how they can write these bylaws. From everything I have read allstars is a 501c 6. The IRS has a website to allow members to know of their structure and although tedious it will assist you as well as knowing your rights as written in your bylaws:

Internal Revenue Manual - 4.76.15 Business Leagues - IRC 501(c)(6)

 

[King]

May I ask you a question since you've been so open about the athlete who was overage w/whom you competed, then turned in, gave back the awards, and all of your analogies about not "bending" rules and everything needing to be concrete for a reason, etc? Has an EP ever bent the rules (let's say within the past 3-5 years since your program has been around for a long time) for your gym before?

You say my program but I have moved on to do other coaching thing. When you say bent the rules are you saying have they had a team go at a different time or bent the rules we threw a backtuck basket in level 3? If you have any questions comments or concerns you can always feel free to email [email protected] to get an entire program POV, but I personally spent a LOT of time being legal and not getting any rules bent. You can ask Andre how long I double check all the parts of my routines to make sure nothing is illegal.

 

[Bystander]

May I ask you a question since you've been so open about the athlete who was overage w/whom you competed, then turned in, gave back the awards, and all of your analogies about not "bending" rules and everything needing to be concrete for a reason, etc? Has an EP ever bent the rules (let's say within the past 3-5 years since your program has been around for a long time) for your gym before?

actually you bring up a good point about bending rules! have you ever talked to anyone who works warmups at a comp where most CEA teams are in attendance? ask them how many times they have had to re adjust schedules and mat times to accomodate all their crossovers! Is that bending the rules?

 

[Deleted member 15]

I don't think anything should be complicated for parents, gym owners, coaches and the athletes in this sport. There should be no guessing games on the rules and infractions as they occur. It is my understanding that all governing bodies have a (hopefully) clear set of bylaws for their members. When a group seeks non-profit status, their chosen tax structure determines how they can write these bylaws. From everything I have read allstars is a 501c 6. The IRS has a website to allow members to know of their structure and although tedious it will assist you as well as knowing your rights as written in your bylaws:

Internal Revenue Manual - 4.76.15 Business Leagues - IRC 501(c)(6)

USASF is not a 501c3 or 501c6.

 

[yojaehs]

Maybe the Olympic way could work. You must submit an inquiry in writing with $100.00 in cash. I know $100.00 doesn't seem like much but it would stop the I think that girl is to old...why? because she kind of looks old.

It would probably help keep frivolous claims to a minimum...and make it easier to fund investigating a claim.

Actually I LOVE this idea, I brought it up in different meetings, it doesn't seem like it's gonna get much support, IDK why, but I got shot down QUICK fast and in a hurry. To me its pretty simple, and I would make it PUBLIC! If you would like to protest YOUR routine scores it's $100, if your right, you get your money back. If you would like to protest the eligibility of an athlete at another program it's $500, their fine will be $1000 so you get your money back and $500 goes towards the scholarship fund. For me I don't see what issues this would present an EP other than making them money and deter the "Why didn't my level 2 team max out their tumbling scores? We threw some standing tucks" That I know EP's are bombarded with!

 

[Deleted member 15]

kingston xtremeteal4life

King consistently sends videos to review to Les, Omar, and myself to make sure the skills in his routines are legal, including sending something to me each of the last 2 nights.

From what I've heard Rays pays published entry fee rates at all events they go to. They normally register early to get the published early bird discount, but don't seek additional, non-published discounts.

 

[King]

kingston xtremeteal4life

King consistently sends videos to review to Les, Omar, and myself to make sure the skills in his routines are legal, including sending something to me each of the last 2 nights.

From what I've heard Rays pays published entry fee rates at all events they go to. They normally register early to get the published early bird discount, but don't seek additional, non-published discounts.

And this isn't some extra service that Rays or I get. TBH were just one of the few people that take advantage of things like this.

 

[coachrah]

USASF is not a 501c3 or 501c6.

Thanks. But what kind of non profit are they?

 

[Deleted member 15]

Thanks. But what kind of non profit are they?

Something in the State of Tennessee. As of the last time I check, which was sometime last season, they are not recognized as a Non-Profit by the IRS.