OT California Schools No Longer Using 'redskins' As A Mascot

[TealShades]

Double post, sorry. But the more I post in this thread, the weirder it feels to refer to an entire race of people as a mascot. If I ever created a school, Redskins/Braves would definitely not be the mascot.

This is exactly what Natives have a problem with.

 

[FamousxMindset]

I get the reason why the term Redskins could be considered offensive. It's similar to the comparison when the ignorant men of Washington try to pass laws about women's health issues. Just because the situation doesn't impact you directly doesn't mean we should turn a blind eye to the problem.

 

[Cheermom1969]

I know a lot of women that could potentially be offended by that term.

i resemble that comment... (And I'm offended!)

 

[catlady]

Here's where I believe the waters of what is "offensive" gets murky. Black face was offensive because, there were people that could have played black characters but, they chose to paint their faces instead of giving them a job. I don't like the Confederate flag flying on state capitals because of it's historical connection to the War and the flag is supposed to represent the whole state. It doesn't matter if you agree if the War was about slavery or state rights, I can see without a shadow of a doubt why it's offensive.
BUT, my oldest cp's bff growing up was Japanese, and when she was Halloween age, I can see her walking into a Halloween store, seeing the child portrayed on the Asian make up package, and deciding she wants to be an Asian princess. Do I then tell her that's offensive or do I allow her to embrace what she feels is beautiful even if it isn't "historically" correct? It doesn't matter, because deep down, people know that a young child is not doing it to be malicious and they are dressed that way because it makes them feel beautiful. On the same note, if a group of people decided way back when that they want to name their team "Redskin" and have an Indian as their mascot, I'm going to acknowledge it wasn't done to make fun of their team or Native Americans. It was to say their team represents the fight and pride they see in the Indian culture. But, catlady, it is describing their skin color which really isn't red....I'm pasty but, I'm not white and I see all skin tones as beautiful. But, they don't wear the proper head dress.... DH's uncle was a photojournalist for the Petoskey News in Michigan. The chief gave him a full length head dress because, DH's uncle admired it and had taken many pictures of their tribe and framed them for them. All things are not done with a malicious heart and kindness/admiration shouldn't be turned into something hateful, THAT'S offensive.

 

[quitthedrama]

It was a "hypothetical" question which means it doesn't have to be a thing. Since you can't image what "blackskins" might mean, use "yellowskins". It's the same idea.

So since none of you really answered my question, let me answer my own question: Is "blackskins" (or "yellowskins" for those of you who can't imagine what group of people "blackskins" might be referring to) offensive? Yes, it's offensive. Why? Because it's a comment on someones skin color. On a group of people who were once (and still are) singled out in a negative way solely because of their skin color. Who have had a horrible and violent past in Western history because of their skin color. That is why "blackskins" (or "yellowskins") would be offensive. That is why "redskins" is offensive.

To answer the other question that is being talked about in this thread, yes, I do think the world is too PC. But comparing the offensiveness of "redskins" to "Blue Knights" because the color doesn't represent your political party or "powderpuff" because it sounds degrading is, in no way, the same thing.

I actually did answer your question - the term redskin refers to skin color just as blackskin or yellowskin would. As someone with Cherokee roots, it doesn't bother me, particularly since I have never seen a mascot looked at in a negative way. As far as the Blue Knights and Powderpuff comment, obviously there is no comparison between that and race. I was simply stating that in our current society, people are offended over everything and anything and people will often jump on to a cause more for the joy of protesting and making an organization change something than because the cause actually means something to them.

 

[TealShades]

Alright here's my 2 cents. As a NA and individual I'm not offended at Redskins/tribal team names. Or I don't care if you call me Indian or Native American. Neither of those bother me. But I know as a NA as a whole I know where "they're" coming from. Whether it was not malicious or only out of kindness, that's not their (at least not their whole issue) issue. They don't want to be seen as mascot Redskins or tribal name. They want to be seen as people with traditional and religious values/practices, value of their language. They don't want to be seen as a mascot. I do have things that offend me but I'm not going to yell it to the world (not my way of doing things). NA are proud people sometimes it can be cockiness lol aren't we all sometimes. Again I myself not offended by these thing. Shhhh I'm kind of jelly my tribe is not cool enough to be a mascot. I'm actually proud that people out there want use native stuff in their schools. I love FSU for the fact that their mascot is Seminole. I respect everyone on the boards and who responded to this thread. so all of your posts are valid and respected to me.

Eta: not saying that you all (you peps on the boards or others) don't respect them or value their traditions. It's just how they feel.

 

[TealShades]

Ignore I quoted my own post lol

 

[catlady]

Alright here's my 2 cents. As a NA and individual I'm not offended at Redskins/tribal team names. Or I don't care if you call me Indian or Native American. Neither of those bother me. But I know as a NA as a whole I know where "they're" coming from. Whether it was not malicious or only out of kindness, that's not their (at least not their whole issue) issue. They don't want to be seen as mascot Redskins or tribal name. They want to be seen as people with traditional and religious values/practices, value of their language. They don't want to be seen as a mascot. I do have things that offend me but I'm not going to yell it to the world (not my way of doing things). NA are proud people sometimes it can be cockiness lol aren't we all sometimes. Again I myself not offended by these thing. Shhhh I'm kind of jelly my tribe is not cool enough to be a mascot. I'm actually proud that people out there want use native stuff in their schools. I love FSU for the fact that their mascot is Seminole. I respect everyone on the boards and who responded to this thread. so all of your posts are valid and respected to me.

Eta: not saying that you all (you peps on the boards or others) don't respect them or value their traditions. It's just how they feel.

I appreciate and respect your response as a Native American. I do want to ask you a question if you don't mind, and it isn't meant to put you on the spot so, if you don't want to answer I understand. Every article that I have read has said 90% of the NA population feels the same way you do, flattered and proud to have their tribe or a Warrior representing a team. Do you feel the 10 % of the NA population and 18% of the white population that disagree should dictate how the majority of the NA population feels?

Native American Chief Talks About Redskins
How Many Native Americans Think ‘Redskins’ is a Slur? « CBS DC
Redskins Name OK With Most Native Americans
Washington Redskins racist? Native American views on NFL team name | The MMQB with Peter King

 

[TealShades]

I appreciate and respect your response as a Native American. I do want to ask you a question if you don't mind, and it isn't meant to put you on the spot so, if you don't want to answer I understand. Every article that I have read has said 90% of the NA population feels the same way you do, flattered and proud to have their tribe or a Warrior representing a team. Do you feel the 10 % of the NA population and 18% of the white population that disagree should dictate how the majority of the NA population feels?

Native American Chief Talks About Redskins
How Many Native Americans Think ‘Redskins’ is a Slur? « CBS DC
Redskins Name OK With Most Native Americans
Washington Redskins racist? Native American views on NFL team name | The MMQB with Peter King

I don't mind answering your question. I sometimes get embarrassed or cringe a little when other natives make such a big deal about what they view as offensive. I guess because I Don't have a problem with it makes me feel that embarrassment. I just feel we have bigger problems than what a school in Cali or elsewhere has as their mascot. No I don't think they should dictate how I feel.

 

[cheer25mom]

I have some Native American ancestry, and I am not offended by the use of tribe names. The Seminole Nation has condoned Florida State's use of their name, and Florida State works very hard to honor the heritage of the tribe. I don't see that kind of relationship as a bad thing. I don't care for the use of redskin.

 

[cachoi]

Here's where I believe the waters of what is "offensive" gets murky. Black face was offensive because, there were people that could have played black characters but, they chose to paint their faces instead of giving them a job. I don't like the Confederate flag flying on state capitals because of it's historical connection to the War and the flag is supposed to represent the whole state. It doesn't matter if you agree if the War was about slavery or state rights, I can see without a shadow of a doubt why it's offensive.
BUT, my oldest cp's bff growing up was Japanese, and when she was Halloween age, I can see her walking into a Halloween store, seeing the child portrayed on the Asian make up package, and deciding she wants to be an Asian princess. Do I then tell her that's offensive or do I allow her to embrace what she feels is beautiful even if it isn't "historically" correct? It doesn't matter, because deep down, people know that a young child is not doing it to be malicious and they are dressed that way because it makes them feel beautiful. On the same note, if a group of people decided way back when that they want to name their team "Redskin" and have an Indian as their mascot, I'm going to acknowledge it wasn't done to make fun of their team or Native Americans. It was to say their team represents the fight and pride they see in the Indian culture. But, catlady, it is describing their skin color which really isn't red....I'm pasty but, I'm not white and I see all skin tones as beautiful. But, they don't wear the proper head dress.... DH's uncle was a photojournalist for the Petoskey News in Michigan. The chief gave him a full length head dress because, DH's uncle admired it and had taken many pictures of their tribe and framed them for them. All things are not done with a malicious heart and kindness/admiration shouldn't be turned into something hateful, THAT'S offensive.

Dressing up as an Asian princess for Halloween is ok. But when someone chooses to pull their eyes back to finish the look so they're "chinky eyed" is not. Not saying that your child would do this but it's been done to and around me by peers at multiple ages who thought it was funny or "hey we're twins now". I just think using people as mascots opens the door for representations in the name of spirit wear to become tasteless.

Also, that "Chinese" makeup kit is just straight up yellow makeup, which I can tell you Asian people are not Simpsons yellow if y'all have never seen one before..., features a girl as a geisha which are from Japan.

 

[catlady]

Dressing up as an Asian princess for Halloween is ok. But when someone chooses to pull their eyes back to finish the look so they're "chinky eyed" is not. Not saying that your child would do this but it's been done to and around me by peers at multiple ages who thought it was funny or "hey we're twins now". I just think using people as mascots opens the door for representations in the name of spirit wear to become tasteless.

Also, that "Chinese" makeup kit is just straight up yellow makeup, which I can tell you Asian people are not Simpsons yellow if y'all have never seen one before..., features a girl as a geisha which are from Japan.

Finding things "offensive" is a money making business, and it is the lawyers and the few that work for them in special interest groups preaching what to be offended by that are making tons of money. Then we are just left with billions of people that don't want to deal with anyone that isn't like them or doesn't agree with them on every topic because, being offended is exhausting. If Native Americans find the team name "Red Skins" offensive then it needs to be removed but, there are currently Native American High Schools using the name "Red Skins" for their teams so, IMO this is more of a lawyer and small activist group agenda.

While you may be offended that the make up is yellow and they used a geisha, children and the majority of the population don't give those things a second thought. Not because they are trying to be offensive to anyone but, because it is cheap and low quality make up and they are just wanting their child to hurry up and choose a costume so they can get home, get homework, dinner, laundry, whatever and move on. What the general population does know are Asians are not Simpson yellow so, most people would either use no make up or a foundation to give the skin a porcelain finish. It's Halloween makeup that uses primary colors because, it's cheap. It's a choice to be offended or recognize it for its poor quality, intention for one time use and packaging to attract children.

*Edited for grammar police.

 

[Official OWECheer]

Finding things "offensive" is a money making business, and it is the lawyers and the few that work for them in special interest groups preaching what to be offended by that are making tons of money. Then we are just left with billions of people that don't want to deal with anyone that isn't like them or doesn't agree with them on every topic because, being offended is exhausting. If Native Americans find the team name "Red Skins" offensive then it needs to be removed but, there are currently Native American High Schools using the name "Red Skins" for their teams so, IMO this is more of a lawyer and small activist group agenda.

While you may be offended that the make up is yellow and they used a geisha, children and the majority of the population don't give those things a second thought. Not because they are trying to be offensive to anyone but, because it is cheap and low quality make up and they are just wanting their child to hurry up and choose a costume so they can get home, get homework, dinner, laundry, whatever and move on. What the general population does know are Asians are not Simpson yellow so, most people would either use no make up or a foundation to give the skin a porcelain finish. It's Halloween makeup that uses primary colors because, it's cheap. It's a choice to be offended or recognize it for its poor quality, intention for one time use and packaging to attract children.

*Edited for grammar police.

I never thought about the profitability behind all of this. Very interesting.

 

[cachoi]

Finding things "offensive" is a money making business, and it is the lawyers and the few that work for them in special interest groups preaching what to be offended by that are making tons of money. Then we are just left with billions of people that don't want to deal with anyone that isn't like them or doesn't agree with them on every topic because, being offended is exhausting. If Native Americans find the team name "Red Skins" offensive then it needs to be removed but, there are currently Native American High Schools using the name "Red Skins" for their teams so, IMO this is more of a lawyer and small activist group agenda.

While you may be offended that the make up is yellow and they used a geisha, children and the majority of the population don't give those things a second thought. Not because they are trying to be offensive to anyone but, because it is cheap and low quality make up and they are just wanting their child to hurry up and choose a costume so they can get home, get homework, dinner, laundry, whatever and move on. What the general population does know are Asians are not Simpson yellow so, most people would either use no make up or a foundation to give the skin a porcelain finish. It's Halloween makeup that uses primary colors because, it's cheap. It's a choice to be offended or recognize it for its poor quality, intention for one time use and packaging to attract children.

*Edited for grammar police.

What I basically was trying to get at with the makeup was if people really, truly, deeply have the burning desire to sell an ethnic group as a dress up commodity, at least get the country right. Not all Asians are Chinese, not all Latinos and Hispanics are Mexicans, etc.

 

[dawgshow]

What I basically was trying to get at with the makeup was if people really, truly, deeply have the burning desire to sell an ethnic group as a dress up commodity, at least get the country right. Not all Asians are Chinese, not all Latinos and Hispanics are Mexicans, etc.

Not all caucasians are cowboys or hillbillies, either, but we see those costumes.